Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible Pulled!

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This post has 36 Replies | 5 Followers

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 4:52 PM

I’m sorry Beloved, I really hate to be that guy...but if you had it in prepub, that means you, at some point, cancelled your prepub.  Also, you had every intention to buy it, but you didn’t.  I can empathize because it’s happened to me.  I’ve had every intention to buy something but then missed out on it because it was no longer available. I learned soon, that when it comes to buying stuff, it’s better to buy on the spot and then return it if you don’t like it than just having the intention to buy it, because unfortunately, having just the intention doesn’t count.

Anyway, I hope and pray FL can make an exception with you and sell you a copy or bring the resource back so you and others can buy it too 👍😁👌

Anyway, sorry I had to be that guy...

DAL

Posts 2895
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 5:02 PM

DAL:

Anyway, sorry I had to be that guy...

DAL

It's alright DAL, I'm fine. I just wanted two things. One, for FL to admit their flaw regarding communication. Two, for FL to honor their responsibility to those who were able to get in under the gun. I understand once the publisher or author pulls their right to sell all bets are off the table. A company still sells the resource, so once again, I have to default to them.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Posts 443
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 6:26 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Mark Smith:

It would be good to hear from Kyle Anderson or someone else familiar with the issue at Faithlife. At this point I wonder if those who have it shouldn't return it for a refund, or if FL will do that for all of us automatically?

The salesperson was correct, we pulled it at the request of the publisher/author.

Everyone who did place a successful pre-order should have received the book when it shipped on 10/20.

I don't believe there is any reason to return the book (though you are free to).

We generally don't send out communication about pulling down live products unless there is a serious issue with something like plagiarism. We do get requests from publishers at times to retire a book (usually because the rights reverted to the author).

That was not the case in this instance. I don't know all the reasons for the request.

If this had been an active pre-pub/pre-order, we would have sent an email communication immediately.

I completely understand why the author and/or publisher would want to temporarily pull the book due to the initial errors at its release—assuming that's indeed the problem. That said, it's nothing uncorrectable. Faithlife and Kyle responded immediately when they learned of the problem. Emanuel Tov's work is indispensable. It wouldn't benefit students, pastors, professors, scholars, readers, the academic disciplines of biblical studies and textual criticism, or anyone else if it remained unavailable. Hopefully they'll reconsider once this edition has been corrected. That may be their intention, although we cannot really know without hearing from them.

Posts 443
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 6:34 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:

Yup. It's being fixed right now. I even answered a question about it today. I imagine the update will be available within a week.

I'm glad to hear this. I'm thrilled to finally have this volume in Logos! Thank you for addressing these problems so quickly.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 7:01 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:
Yup. It's being fixed right now. I even answered a question about it today. I imagine the update will be available within a week.

Thanks, Kyle. Too bad after all this time (and FL's work) it is no longer available. 

I look forward to receiving the corrected copy.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 462
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 9:41 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:

Mark Smith:

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
I don't believe there is any reason to return the book (though you are free to).

Ben, There was discussion about the level of errors in the text which I referenced above. 

Has FL looked into how serious this is? Does it compromise the accuracy of the text? (I don't have Tov's volume in print so have no way to know.)

This is a strange one. Requested for years. Finally in pre-pub, out just one week ago, and now gone. Wow.

Yup. It's being fixed right now. I even answered a question about it today. I imagine the update will be available within a week.

Thanks Kyle - I'm simply grateful to have the text and look forward to the corrections in the update. Keep well Paul  

Posts 663
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 3:29 AM

So that I am clear- I should not use the resource until it is corrected- right?  How will we know it is corrected?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 5:22 AM

Michael S.:
I should not use the resource until it is corrected- right?

See this thread for context. https://community.logos.com/forums/p/173413/1001151.aspx 

Michael S.:
How will we know it is corrected?

The resource will be updated. I would suggest following the other thread. 

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Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 8:14 AM

Michael S.:

So that I am clear- I should not use the resource until it is corrected- right?  How will we know it is corrected?

Michael, you're funny. Good question. The correct answer is 'you won't'. You'll only know it's been updated. Logos (almost) never says if they corrected anything. In this case, we rely on the author's contractual abilities to insure correct. This may take awhile.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2478
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 5:33 PM

I wish that Logos would give users warning prior to pulling a resource.  It would give those on the fence or planning on purchasing it in the future the opportunity to do so before the chance is gone.  

Personally, there's a good chance that I will purchase a resource today on the off chance that I might use down the road if I know it's going to be pulled.

In Logos' defense, maybe the publisher doesn't allow them to do this.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 5:49 PM

Ronald Quick:
In Logos' defense, maybe the publisher doesn't allow them to do this.

I imagine this is the case. They pull the rights and poof, it is gone.

I'm sure FL would have left it up if they could have. They have no reason not to do so.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 6:30 PM

Well something is wrong here, Accordance is still selling it on their site.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 6:46 PM

Bobby Terhune:
Well something is wrong here, Accordance is still selling it on their site.

Interesting. It's useless to speculate on why the book was removed from Logos. We won't know unless FL tells us and I doubt they feel they can do so. I am sure they wanted to keep the title after having just produced it. Professor Tov has other works published by FL and those are still available.

We can hope it will be back 'in print' in Logos in the near future. It is a needed work.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2895
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 7:34 PM

Mark Smith:
We can hope it will be back 'in print' in Logos in the near future. It is a needed work.

And pray.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.2.3

Posts 381
Vincent Chia | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 9:32 PM

Denise:

Beloved:

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
If this had been an active pre-pub/pre-order, we would have sent an email communication immediately.

Ben,

This resource is still within its 30-day window which suggests to me that it is still active. If you are guaranteeing that all the issues with this text will be addressed I want to exercise my right to purchase a copy.

It IS kind of interesting. It refused to download to my fully updated PC. When I called a refund the following week, and explained, she said they stopped shipping.  I got my refund, but a nice howdy-do ... I just love Logos. It's like pushing a shopping cart backwards.

Just want to clarify. I have this product in my computer now as it was shipped out before being pulled.

Question: will this product download into a new computer? That is, is my license for life?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 10:11 PM

Vincent Chia:
Question: will this product download into a new computer? That is, is my license for life?

Yes

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 6:18 AM

Vincent Chia:
is my license for life?

As MJ wrote, yes. For clarification: Just because a resource was pulled from SALE doesn't mean it has been pulled from anyone's library. It will still be available to you in the future. 

Hopefully whatever snafu occurred will be rectified and FL will be able to resume sales. We should not count on that, however. I would look at this like the Moody issue previously where all titles were pulled. 

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