Touch Screen Support Still Missing

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This post has 34 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 86
William Walker | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 29 2018 2:51 PM

In regards to the Logos 8 Desktop app for Windows:

The new look and feel has been modernized and appears great overall.

However, I noticed the home screen and some other screens (i.e. program settings) still do not fully support touch screen input. Specifically lacking is touch scrolling. This was an oft requested feature in prior versions and in the Logos 8 wish list so it's highly disappointing to see the touch interface is still crippled in Logos 8.  The only way to scroll the home page is with a mouse or to touch and drag the tiny area of the scrollbar.  This is very annoying.

Also is there a way to see which list items from the Logos 8 wish list actually made it into the initial release of Logos 8?  Is there a wiki page that has this information?

Posts 1043
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 2:56 PM

That is disappointing to hear. Does touch work for highlighting and for the context menu?

I was particularly hoping for active pen use for highlighting.

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LogosEmployee
Daniel Di Bartolo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 2:59 PM

Thanks for your feedback. We do offer touch support on app.logos.com. 

Posts 86
William Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 3:09 PM

Harry Hahne:

That is disappointing to hear. Does touch work for highlighting and for the context menu?

I was particularly hoping for active pen use for highlighting.

I can hold down my finger to bring up the context menu and it highlights the whole verse which can then be highlighted with shortcuts. The context menu is responsive to touch.  Cannot do word selection or partial verse selection with just my finger.

As far as active pen, on my tablet it was working with highlighting in L7 and still works in L8.  Also with my pen I can do word and partial verse selection.

It would be very nice to see gesture support such as pinch and zoom to resize the content of a window.

Posts 86
William Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 3:10 PM

Daniel Di Bartolo:

Thanks for your feedback. We do offer touch support on app.logos.com. 

Thanks Daniel but I don't use app.logos.com.

Posts 1043
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 4:05 PM

William Walker:
As far as active pen, on my tablet it was working with highlighting in L7 and still works in L8.  Also with my pen I can do word and partial verse selection.

That is good to hear. I gave up using the pen in Logos 7 in Windows because I found it could do some things, but not others. They must have improved these things along the way. I will revisit it, because I prefer to use a pen for notes and highlighting when I am reading.

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LogosEmployee
Posts 86
William Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 4:09 PM

Harry Hahne:

William Walker:
As far as active pen, on my tablet it was working with highlighting in L7 and still works in L8.  Also with my pen I can do word and partial verse selection.

That is good to hear. I gave up using the pen in Logos 7 in Windows because I found it could do some things, but not others. They must have improved these things along the way. I will revisit it, because I prefer to use a pen for notes and highlighting when I am reading.

Harry, let me know if you have a different experience with your pen or any specific questions about how I use mine.

Posts 86
William Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 4:17 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Any news about improvements to touch input will be posted to this suggestion: https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/619605-focus-on-tablet-and-touchscreen-features 

Thank you Bradley.

That suggestion thread has been around for a REALLY LONG time.  Do you have any input as to whether this is actively being worked on or waiting for more votes?  I'm a very happy Logos user, but at this point my perception is that FL is not listening to its user base about the need for a fully baked implementation of touch input.  I would appreciate a reasoned response from FL regarding this issue instead of referring to the suggestion thread.

Posts 1043
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 4:59 PM

William Walker:
Harry, let me know if you have a different experience with your pen or any specific questions about how I use mine

I just gave it a try again. I can select text with a swipe of the pen, which is great. Long press to get context menu works.

Word selection is erratic -- sometimes a long hold selects the whole word (which I would expect), sometimes just part of the word or several words.

It is still clunky to highlight text, since I have to select, then do a long press and and find highlight in the context menu. This is easier on my Android tablet, but not as smooth as the Kindle app.

I could not find any way to select a tab and move it to a new panel. I expected to long press on the tab and drag it somewhere. That is a common task for me.

This is in Logos 7.19. Is it better in Logos 8?

Posts 579
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 5:04 PM

Harry Hahne:
This is in Logos 7.19. Is it better in Logos 8?

Unfortunately, no changes to this were made in Logos 8. I would expect it to behave the same.

Posts 661
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 5:08 PM

I would just like to be able to scroll the home page with the touchscreen...with my finger. I just want to scroll, that's all. That can't be too hard. People have been asking for this for years, I'm very surprised it's not a part of Logos 8. People are used to interacting with touchscreens these days, it's not like it's new technology.

I just wanna scroll the home page with the touchscreen, is that too much to ask? Especially since you've moved to this new card interface, it seems like touchscreens conceptually go hand and hand with that type of interface.

Posts 86
William Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 5:14 PM

Alan Palmer (Faithlife):

Harry Hahne:
This is in Logos 7.19. Is it better in Logos 8?

Unfortunately, no changes to this were made in Logos 8. I would expect it to behave the same.

Harry, that is my experience as well that there is no difference between L7 and L8.  Unfortunately the behavior you are experiencing in L7 is as good as it gets for now.

Alan, thank you for confirming that no changes were made.  Can FL please give a reasoned response as to why this issue has not been fixed and what future plans are for fixing if any?  Touch is a pretty common sense feature to support so not sure why it continues to be an issue.  It's not like touch based computers are going away anytime soon.  It was a common request in the Logos 8 wish list thread as well.

Posts 86
William Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 5:17 PM

Kiyah:

I would just like to be able to scroll the home page with the touchscreen...with my finger. I just want to scroll, that's all. That can't be too hard. People have been asking for this for years, I'm very surprised it's not a part of Logos 8. People are used to interacting with touchscreens these days, it's not like it's new technology.

I just wanna scroll the home page with the touchscreen, is that too much to ask? Especially since you've moved to this new card interface, it seems like touchscreens conceptually go hand and hand with that type of interface.

Well said.

Posts 207
LogosEmployee
Daniel Di Bartolo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:16 AM

As you've mentioned, people are using more touch devices than ever before.

We support users who prefer touch in a couple of different ways. We offer our native mobile apps, and we have our web application. In the last 6 months, we've made multiple touch support improvements to the web app. 

The primary reason we have not invested in touch support for desktop is because a low percentage of our user base uses touch-enabled Windows devices. I'm sorry that we haven't been able to invest in this area yet. 

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:35 AM

Daniel Di Bartolo:

As you've mentioned, people are using more touch devices than ever before.

We support users who prefer touch in a couple of different ways. We offer our native mobile apps, and we have our web application. In the last 6 months, we've made multiple touch support improvements to the web app. 

The primary reason we have not invested in touch support for desktop is because a low percentage of our user base uses touch-enabled Windows devices. I'm sorry that we haven't been able to invest in this area yet. 

Out of interest Daniel

How do you collect data on touch screen usage? I have one, just wondered if your data would have captured that as I have never expressed an interest in touch screen support.

Posts 1874
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:36 AM

Daniel Di Bartolo:
The primary reason we have not invested in touch support for desktop is because a low percentage of our user base uses touch-enabled Windows devices. I'm sorry that we haven't been able to invest in this area yet. 

And yet it has been the #3 most voted request in User Voice for years. Wink

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 661
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:38 AM

Daniel Di Bartolo:

As you've mentioned, people are using more touch devices than ever before.

We support users who prefer touch in a couple of different ways. We offer our native mobile apps, and we have our web application. In the last 6 months, we've made multiple touch support improvements to the web app. 

The primary reason we have not invested in touch support for desktop is because a low percentage of our user base uses touch-enabled Windows devices. I'm sorry that we haven't been able to invest in this area yet. 

Um...So nobody is buying Surface tablets (which can run the full desktop app)? No one but me is buying 2-in-1 laptops? They certainly have a lot of those for sale at Best Buy. One wonders why stores like Best Buy keep offering them if no one is buying them. The Windows displays at my seminary library are all Dell touch-screen displays. Windows 8 and 10 are completely designed to facilitate touch functionality, Microsoft Office has an actual Touch Screen Mode that makes the buttons easier to push with your finger. But I guess Microsoft is wasting resources because nobody is taking advantage of this functionality.

Sorry for the sarcasm but it's a bit frustrating to hear Logos say they're not investing in touch-screen functionality in this day and age. It seems out of touch (no pun intended) to me. I prefer to use my laptop to use Logos because of the full functionality (sans-touch) and the power of my laptop hardware. I have a 2-in-1 laptop with a touch screen and as I said above, if I could just scroll the home page with my finger that would make me happy. I can see if you don't want to totally redo the desktop app, but can't you just make the home page scroll-able with touch? That's all I ask.

Posts 661
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:47 AM

Look, here's a Logos user inquiring about Surface Pro specs to get for use with Logos just yesterday.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/174085.aspx

Posts 1874
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:48 AM

Kiyah:
But I guess Microsoft is wasting resources because nobody is taking advantage of this functionality.

I suspect that the Apple/Microsoft divide is alive and well in some circles. When (if?) Apple ever makes a touch-enabled MacBook, then Logos will magically start to see the need that so many of us have expressed for so long.

I find it especially ironic that the new canvas tool imitates touch interaction rather than actually incorporating touch/pen features :)

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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