Logos 8 v 7 - Whats missing?

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This post has 128 Replies | 10 Followers

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DominicM | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 30 2018 12:24 PM

Hearing mixed reports about folks losing functionality and having their workflow upset by upgrading to 8, so if you have, what features/options are missing/not implemented yet?

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Posts 47
Willy Arnold | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 12:54 PM

The notes feature is missing quite a bit.  If you are a heavy notes user, as I am, this can be quite unsettling at first. However:

  1. You can switch back to the old notes system within L8.
  2. They plan to eventually add most of the features from L7.
  3. They tell you specifically what is missing and what they are working on here:

Logos Notes

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 1:15 PM

I have not seen a definitive list yet I'm hoping someone at Faithlife will publish one soon.

Notes has been mentioned.

The new home page is a radical redesign and is incomplete. The knock on here is that some of the items that you may be used to finding there have moved or are not available in the form you may be expecting.

There have been some changes in behaviour that might catch you out depending on the way that you use Logos.

  • Opening a reading plan from the new home page closes the current layout and opens a new Faithlife defined layout
  • Opening the Library from the Icon in the Toolbar no longer switches to an open Library view if you have one. 

From a general UI perspective things have been moved around, the new structure seems reasonably logical but seems to require more scrolling. Program Settings for example took me a while to find.

Help is in serious need of the promised update being delivered.

Feedback seems to suggest that Preferred/Default Bible is gone as a concept and has been merged into Prioritisation. I think in reality this has been the case for some time and that under the covers the Preferred Bible selection paced your selection at the top of the Prioritisation list.

There are other quirks that I keep finding some of which are irritating because I need to change how I do things others are more annoying and I'm hoping that in these cases we'll be given some configuration options to adjust the behaviour.

I have not seen a commitment from Faithlife but a lot of posts here promise that the issues that have been accepted as needing an update will be fixed in 8.1. It's quite possible that the beta testers have these fixes already so know what is in 8.1.

Feedback from Verbum/Liturgical users seems to indicate that if that is your background a lot more is missing.

Posts 47
Willy Arnold | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 1:26 PM
  • Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates.  I wish they could have kept both. 
  • Also, after downloading updates, L7 used to tell me what was added / updated.  Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that anymore.  I would like to know what was updated. 
  • The look and feel / user interface is also a bit different.  Some like it, some don't. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 1:46 PM

willy arnold:
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates.  I wish they could have kept both

I agree because one could click on the example and then use it as a pseudo-template. But if they get the new templates built quickly . . .

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 1:48 PM

willy arnold:

Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates.  I wish they could have kept both. 

Also, after downloading updates, L7 used to tell me what was added / updated.  Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that anymore.  I would like to know what was updated. 

You can see this now in the Library view, Open the Sidebar (three line icon just below the library Icon top left) then there are some filters last one being added.

Personally I see this as an example of the type of UI change that needs to be included in a quick guide document for Logos 7 users, the sidebar is a great feature but I would not describe the access or content as intuitive.

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Graham Owen:
Feedback seems to suggest that Preferred/Default Bible is gone as a concept and has been merged into Prioritisation. I think in reality this has been the case for some time and that under the covers the Preferred Bible selection paced your selection at the top of the Prioritisation list.

There never really was such a concept as "Preferred Bible". The home page tool (which is not on the Logos 8 home page) was a helper that just presented a Bible picker then modified your prioritisation list behind-the-scenes. (Your second sentence is exactly right.)

We understand that using the "Preferred Bible" home page tool was a lot easier than learning all the ins and outs of prioritisation, but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 3:26 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.

While I agree with you, I suspect that Faithlife may be greatly underestimating the number of people who switch Bibles frequently ... or will once you get just a tad more lectionary support. Most faith formation directors I know carry a 4 or 8 translation Bible - and switch between the Bible used for liturgy and their personal favorite Bible for study on a regular basis.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 408
Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 3:31 PM

While I agree that it was a nice "feature", if a user learns the prioritization feature they can easily prioritize their - say - 5 favorite translations and access them on the file while in the software. I don't think this ability has changed, has it? ( I have only spent a few hours in Logos 8 since I downloaded it and let it index :)).

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Posts 3135
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 3:56 PM

MJ. Smith:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.

While I agree with you, I suspect that Faithlife may be greatly underestimating the number of people who switch Bibles frequently ... or will once you get just a tad more lectionary support. Most faith formation directors I know carry a 4 or 8 translation Bible - and switch between the Bible used for liturgy and their personal favorite Bible for study on a regular basis.

I switch which translation(s) I'm reading frequently, but I don't change their prioritization very often.

Posts 933
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 4:13 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
The home page tool (which is not on the Logos 8 home page) was a helper that just presented a Bible picker then modified your prioritisation list behind-the-scenes.

Bradley, not only would I like to see it brought back, but I wish it would be expanded to other areas. For example, I wish there was a "commentary picker" tool where I could easily pick my top five commentaries for each individual book of the Bible and have Logos modify the prioritization list behind the scenes. Maybe in Logos 8.5?

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GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 6:25 PM

willy arnold:
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates.  I wish they could have kept both. 

1. Let's keep praying about this.

2.  My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible.  A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.

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GaoLu:
2.  My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible.  A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.

Can you explain why this is a common "habit" for you? Knowing how you want to use the software may help us design better features for a future release.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 9:12 PM

GaoLu:

willy arnold:
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates.  I wish they could have kept both. 

1. Let's keep praying about this.

2.  My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible.  A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.

You can easily achieve this with prioritization and keystrokes. The left and right arrow keys quickly toggle through your prioritized translations thus eliminating the need to change the preferred Bible (which would take more time).

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 10:18 PM

David Taylor Jr:
The left and right arrow keys quickly toggle through your prioritized translations thus eliminating the need to change the preferred Bible (which would take more time).

Yes ... and no ... prioritization has a direct effect on your available canon.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 1:02 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

GaoLu:
2.  My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible.  A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.

Can you explain why this is a common "habit" for you? Knowing how you want to use the software may help us design better features for a future release.

I would like to do this easily. I would if there was a “set preferred bible to xxx“ command I could put on my shortcuts bar. I want to do so because I use a different Bible in church/academic/devotional contexts. I currently “set target”, which is OK, bit doesn’t change hovertext or CBV etc.

Posts 5148
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 1:38 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
We understand that using the "Preferred Bible" home page tool was a lot easier than learning all the ins and outs of prioritisation, but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool

Bradley FL has missed the point.  You say you have made changes in Logos 8 to make it easier for new users and they you removed one of the features that actually made it easier for new users. You should have used this idea and created a prioritization tool that allowed a user to select a data type and then the top 5 resources they wanted to prioritize. Not unlike we used to be able to do with Libronix but only much more user friendly. It could have even been created as a workflow type document for a new user setting up their system.  And as MJ pointed about there are many users of Logos software that use it in a variety of ways and some would use this to change their preferred Bible at times other than initial setup.  FL has missed a real opportunity here while complicating things by removing other features form the home page that also allow a user quick access like the Recently updated resources, release notes and link to user account to name three things.

Posts 1014
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 1:48 AM

Matthew:

I wish there was a "commentary picker" tool where I could easily pick my top five commentaries for each individual book of the Bible and have Logos modify the prioritization list behind the scenes. Maybe in Logos 8.5?

YesYesYes

I keep meaning to do this but have never taken the time... perhaps the tool could even suggest a scheme based on bestcommentaries.com though I wouldn't agree with all their choices it might be a good start?

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 1:50 AM

John Goodman:
a scheme based on bestcommentaries.com though I wouldn't agree with all their choices it might be a good start?

Only for a portion of the customer base Wink

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 933
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 2:27 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Can you explain why this is a common "habit" for you? Knowing how you want to use the software may help us design better features for a future release.

For my own personal study I prefer Bible A. One congregation I attend prefers that reading and teaching be done from Bible B. Another congregation I visit prefers that Bible C is used. When I go to a nursing home, they prefer Bible D. It isn't a matter of just using the arrow keys to toggle which Bible I have open. I need to actually change my prioritized Bible for so I see the text of whatever Bible I am working with when using Power Lookup or moving my mouse over a Bible reference to make the text appear.

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