Workflow: what use beyond the basics?

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Francis | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Oct 31 2018 1:16 AM

I appreciate the fact that workflows will really help beginners. I am not sure how useful it will be for those who already have well honed study skills. I tried to make a workflow and quickly gave up because it seemed to require too much time thinking about design. 

The most common application I see from shared workflows is the translation of a method from a resource/author into a workflow. The workflow allows one to remember all the steps. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 2:02 AM

The editor is just a skeleton of what it will become. There are many links that one needs to be able to create that are not yet implemented. It has the potential to be very powerful and quite complex. I would personally use it in 3 contexts:

  • work flows for laity who don't want to remember how to customize but simply wish to be given a form to fill out
  • training work flows for educational purposes
  • advanced worksheets where it is unreasonable to expect the Bible student to remember the details of how to accomplish all the tasks.

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doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 4:05 AM

MJ. Smith:
training work flows for educational purposes

I haven't had the time to look at all of the workflows as yet, but will do so over the coming week. 

You might be thinking about this differently to what I am MJ in terms of training for educational purposes, but for the workflow on Basic Bible Study, as an example,  it felt like Passage Guide for Absolute Beginners (no disrespect meant) but there is nothing in the workflow that takes the Beginner from using the workflow and graduates them to using the  Passage Guide on it's own without the need for a the workflow that I could see.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 5:02 AM

Hi Doc

doc:
I haven't had the time to look at all of the workflows as yet, but...

Nor me but...

I see the Workflow facility as an aide memoir to processes rather than a training aid in those processes.

As you become proficient with a process you can trim, edit the workflow of dispense with it altogether.

For processes that you only do infrequently an aide memoir can be very useful even when proficient with the software.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 5:14 AM

Mike, it should be written aide-memoire. Without the e at the end, the term refers to a literary category (a memoir).

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Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 5:23 AM

MJ. Smith:
advanced worksheets where it is unreasonable to expect the Bible student to remember the details of how to accomplish all the tasks.

I'd like to be able to print/export a workflow for this purpose.

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Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 5:26 AM

MJ. Smith:

The editor is just a skeleton of what it will become. There are many links that one needs to be able to create that are not yet implemented. It has the potential to be very powerful and quite complex. I would personally use it in 3 contexts:

  • work flows for laity who don't want to remember how to customize but simply wish to be given a form to fill out
  • training work flows for educational purposes
  • advanced worksheets where it is unreasonable to expect the Bible student to remember the details of how to accomplish all the tasks.

Yes, Yes, and YES!!!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 710
Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 5:27 AM

Mike Binks:
As you become proficient with a process you can trim, edit the workflow

It would be nice if the workflows that come with L8 had an edit option so you could modify them and save-as your own custom workflow.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 5:48 AM

Francis:

Mike, it should be written aide-memoire. Without the e at the end, the term refers to a literary category (a memoir).

Thank you Francis. I will have to create a Workflow for checking that my spelling is correct. And here is me berating our ex-colonial cousins for their lack of use of the 'u' in so many words.

Embarrassed What a humiliation

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Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 6:18 AM

doc:

MJ. Smith:
training work flows for educational purposes

but there is nothing in the workflow that takes the Beginner from using the workflow and graduates them to using the  Passage Guide on it's own without the need for a the workflow that I could see.

Hello Doc:

I  am someone who believes that workflow is the very best addition to Logos, and I fall under the category of an advanced beginner.  Here is how I envision this, but please understand that I'm only responding to your statement above regarding workflow, as I believe it has potential to be a tool that advanced users will likewise find invaluable (if not only from the perspective of saving time).

What the workflow templates do is guide the absolute beginner so they can immediately use the program and expose them to resources and tools they would not know about otherwise.  It eliminates the frustration of trying to figure out HOW to do something in the program and allows them to simply enjoy their time in the Word.  However, while using the workflow template, they are brought to other tools and resources simply by clicking around.  If or when they find themselves over their head, they can come back to workflow and move on.  However, by then they have already been exposed to new tools outside of the workflow panel, and for many it will whet their appetite to try out a new tool. 

I am not computer savvy at all, but when I was in the inductive Bible study workflow, I clicked around at bit and after a little while, decided that as an inductive Bible study teacher, I would like my own Inductive workflow to be set up differently.  Without even looking at a video or how to guide, I was immediately able to start building my own workflow, which will take a while but that's okay as I plan on sharing it with my class students because, for the very first time ever, I feel I can actually recommend Logos to them.

Now, as a student or user is in workflow and exposed to various resources and tool, they will undoubtedly notice various other tools and guides which they will certainly, at first, use in its boilerplate form but with the glaring "ADD" button there, will look to create their own.  However, I believe it all starts with workflow--something that allows the beginner to click around safely to become exposed to the program but come back to in order to learn more.

And the beauty of workflow is that it CAN become so much more.  I see so much potential for it, and I'm not even computer savvy.

I hope that helps you see it a little bit through the eyes of someone who practically thew in the towel on the program and now sees it as something even MORE powerful for the seasoned user and something that will teach and excite the brand new beginner.

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 9853
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 7:03 AM

I can opine without ever seeing it!

FL'ers used that vocabulary for a long time ... I really wondered where it came from. My Dad was a preacher. He had a 'workflow' but his face would crinkle up and grimace at the word and the concept. Studying and preparing was his worship and his favorite time. There was no work, and no flow.

That said, when I read about it, I immediately thought of Cynthia and her enthusiasm. And MJ trying to lead Logos down the path of teaching, and integration.  So, my guesses might be right.

But can FL climb out of corporate group think, and into the Sanctuary?


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Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:39 AM

Denise:

I can opine without ever seeing it!

FL'ers used that vocabulary for a long time ... I really wondered where it came from. My Dad was a preacher. He had a 'workflow' but his face would crinkle up and grimace at the word and the concept. Studying and preparing was his worship and his favorite time. There was no work, and no flow.

That said, when I read about it, I immediately thought of Cynthia and her enthusiasm. And MJ trying to lead Logos down the path of teaching, and integration.  So, my guesses might be right.

But can FL climb out of corporate group think, and into the Sanctuary?

Hello Denise!

I love reading your posts!  They always crack me up...and keep me on my toes.

Yesterday I was teaching the book of Ephesians, Chapter 4.  Something that struck me in verses 15-16 is that when speaking of the body of Christ growing up, the Church is to grow by "being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love."

It was the first time I ever really paid attention to that word held. So in layman's terms, it means that when every individual works out their gift, they are joined together (fitted or framed together) and unified (held or joined together as a whole) which causes spiritual growth for the purpose of strengthening itself in love. 

In my early Christian years, I wondered why everyone was not as passionate as me concerning equipping the Saints in the Word. It seemed so paramount to me.  Yet others felt it was more important to feed them, and others felt it was to pray for them...  I have come to understand that we need individuals like me, and we need individual like MJ, and when we all supply the body with the proper working of our individual part, that's when the magic happens!

All that to say...

I love that your post pegged me spot on, and I love that you pegged MJ's passion too.  But now, for the first time since I've been on this forum (and that's a reflection of me, not you), I understand a little bit of the heart in your "individual part" and what that joint supplies, and it's rather beautiful.

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 9:50 AM

Cynthia in Florida:
I  am someone who believes that workflow is the very best addition to Logos

While from the standpoint of my own personal needs, I cannot see that I will have substantial use for workflows in the near future, I think it is a considerable step forward to help many people make the most of the tools and resources available in Logos and solidify their study skills and breadth. I hope that many users will find blessing there. 

The general idea of using workflows has more potency than the current applications may suggest. Many preachers and teachers could benefit from a better sermon preparation workflow leading to more solid study and preparation. Even scholars can benefit from codifying their skills and approaches into workflows that will help insure that they cover the bases and do not neglect significant steps in their analyses and productions.

I could see down the road helpful workflows produced to facilitate complex tasks such as textual criticism.  

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scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 11:18 AM

Francis:
While from the standpoint of my own personal needs, I cannot see that I will have substantial use for workflows in the near future

You have done the hard work, already, I surmise, in developing your own work flow.  For me, Workflow is, as you suggest, going to be a big step forward, as the rig suggests avenues of exploration: click this.

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GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 11:31 AM

I tend to have a fairly standard way of preparing a sermon to make sure I've done the necessary background work. Up until now I've accomplished that with a number of customised Passage and Exegetical Guides. Workflow helps me to to bring all of that together. I think it is also potentially helpful for students preparing exegetical papers, people preparing group Bible Studies, etc. I don't regard it as a "beginner's" tool at all. I also appreciate that not all of us want to prepare our preaching in a highly-structured way. For me, bringing structure to my approach is part of my worship. For others, different approaches are part of theirs. 


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Eleanor Emmott | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 12:11 PM

GregW:
  I also appreciate that not all of us want to prepare our preaching in a highly-structured way. For me, bringing structure to my approach is part of my worship. For others, different approaches are part of theirs.  

I love that... thanks Greg!

Tim Hensler:
It would be nice if the workflows that come with L8 had an edit option so you could modify them and save-as your own custom workflow.

As a preacher who thrives on structure, I'm pretty enthusiastic about the workflows and their potential.  Sometimes the sermon-preparation process can feel overwhelming and it's great to be able to break it down step by step.

I'm looking forward to being able to combine the Expository Sermon Workflow with the Exegetical Passage workflow and the notes-based workflow that I have already been using for some time!

Posts 20
LaRosa Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 12:20 PM

Personally, as someone who desires to help people study the Bible & raise their biblical literacy, I'm excited about what I can do with Workflows. One of the things I do each week is write a tip related to Bible study. I have covered various methods, and it'd be awesome to create Workflows for each of these. Plus, I'm writing a Bible Study workbook, and now with workflows I plan to make these available in Logos (in addition to the printable worksheets I was going to offer as a bonus).

So many possibilities for helping teach people to study God's Word on their own!

Weekly Bible Study Tips - https://biblestudy.tips 

Posts 701
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 12:54 PM

Is there a location where we can download other's uniquely designed workflows? For example, I would love to find one that follows the twelve step process detailed in DeRouchie/Naselli.

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Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 12:56 PM

People can create it and upload it to the public

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

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Richard Wardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2018 1:01 PM

JH:

Is there a location where we can download other's uniquely designed workflows? For example, I would love to find one that follows the twelve step process detailed in DeRouchie/Naselli.

JH, there should be a button at the bottom of the Guides menu to find other Workflows (I cant check because my PC if off right now!). 

At least, theres something like it somewhere! 

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