L7 on two different computers has different Library count?

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 30 2018 2:00 PM

Both systems have been recently undated. Older system (Vista) lists 13, 539 resources in my Library. My newer system (Win10) lists 13, 739. Why the discrepancy? I know one of the missing resources is TDOT. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 30 2018 2:15 PM

Try the command “update resources” on the Vista computer.

And with Logos not being supported on Vista I don’t know if that has any implications here 

Are any of the missing resources Personal Books just compiled on one computer?

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IIRC the latest version of Logos supported on Windows Vista was Logos 5.2b.

As per https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007391412 unsupported versions of Logos don't read all the latest resources (because they may contain unsupported features or data types), so they will not download. This is the most likely explanation for "missing" resources.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2018 4:01 AM

Have to say it really stinks being stuck on the wrong side of a chasm. FL's refusal to include the features from L3 that I use constantly in their current versions makes my life a pain. L7 works on my Vista system just fine...except for the missing resources. Most of what I've bought since L3 was mothballed is accessible through L7 on the Vista machine, and I can just copy and paste from L7 to L3. But I've waited years and years to get TDOT in Logos, and now that I have it, I still can't really use it. I can use it on my Win10 machine, but I have to use my Vista machine for inputting notes because that's the machine that L3 Notes works best on. Now I have to figure out how to get notes from the Win10 machine onto the Vista machine. I sure do wish FL would add the L3 features I use and need to the current version.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2018 4:33 AM

David Paul:

 I sure do wish FL would add the L3 features I use and need to the current version.

Please be so kind as to list those features - Thanks.

Also if anyone has L3 running on a Win 10 machine please tell us how to do that - Double thanks. 

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2018 11:09 PM

David Ames:
Please be so kind as to list those features - Thanks.

<--- I've done that so many times over the years my tongue is lolling...see? 

But I can make a quick list:

1) First and foremost, Notes pop-up windows don't just provide a tiny keyhole to peep through, as they do in L4-L8, which show only the first few lines of info. In L3 they are a canvas upon which the user can include a panorama of data that can be as large as your screen. There are a multitude of uses for this function. Any piece of info (found in your Logos library or elsewhere) that informs a word, phrase, or verse can be inserted wherever that info is pertinent and it is immediately available without having to search or even click. Just hover and presto!

The pop-up shows the complete note while the data entry window on the left needs to be scrolled. Besides just verse references, you can include commentary info...

...and even interlinear data (for Hebrew, LXX, NT, etc.).

Now, compare the L3 note above to the same note in L7...it's like comparing gold to goose eggs.

Worst of all, that cramped keyhole that pretends to be a useful note is as big as notes get in L7 (and I assume L8, too). Why is that??? Isn't the L3 note infinitely better? Look how much info can be accessed in an L3 note without having to click a mouse button.

And like I said, L3 notes can be as big as your screen if needed.

2) A second feature that I use constantly is the drop-down forward and back history menus for each open resource window. These are pretty much identical to those found on most web browsers. The ones in L3 had two discrete buttons for going forward or back.

These buttons work much faster and more logically than the single forward AND back drop-down menu in L7...

Besides not being as quick (no scrolling required in L3!), the L7 scroll bar DOESN'T WORK. Every time I try to click-and-drag the scroll bar, the whole menu disappears. Ugh.

3) One other HUGE thing is that in my NASB95 (it works in the KJV, too, since they are literal translations), by simply hovering over a word you get an instant pop-up of the Strong's entry. This provides immediate awareness of the original Heb or Grk word, it's syllabic emphasis, its number of appearances, its relation to roots & particles, and for proper names, a quick indication of what the name means. All of that info WITH NO CLICKS.

I know there's more stuff, but those are a few biggies. I've asked, cajoled, complained, begged, and get no response. I don't get it...I guess most people really like not being able to see what's in their notes. But if enough people think seeing your notes in big info-filled glory is a great idea, maybe they will make it happen after a decade of backward progress. If you like how the L3 notes look above, leave a comment saying so.

David Ames:
Also if anyone has L3 running on a Win 10 machine please tell us how to do that - Double thanks.

I just loaded L3 on my Win10 system like normal and it just works...albeit with some highly annoying deficiencies. It works much slower on my Win10 system than it does on my Vista. For instance, the pop-ups take about 3-5 seconds rather than being instant. Some of the right mouse menu choices don't appear for some strange reason, but there are work arounds. The Notes in L3 on Vista have a light yellow tint that causes them to stand out against the white background, but the Notes are just white on Win10.

Ideally, FL will just add these useful (for me, necessary) features to L8 or L9 and we hold outs will be able to move on. I've been hoping for that ever since L4 came out in 2009. Wilted Flower

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2018 11:32 PM

David Paul:
3) One other HUGE thing is that in my NASB95 (it works in the KJV, too, since they are literal translations), by simply hovering over a word you get an instant pop-up of the Strong's entry. This provides immediate awareness of the original Heb or Grk word, it's syllabic emphasis, its number of appearances, its relation to roots & particles, and for proper names, a quick indication of what the name means. All of that info WITH NO CLICKS.

Tool => Information can be configured to update: Hover or Click (with Hover providing Information update with no clicks)

Default location for Information Tool is right hand side of main window (can be dragged to a different location), which is different than L3 pop-up:

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2018 2:39 AM

David Paul:

David Ames:
Please be so kind as to list those features - Thanks.

<--- I've done that so many times over the years my tongue is lolling...see? 

But I can make a quick list:

Thanks for taking the time to list those items yet one more time.  The 9,999,999.999 other times maybe lost in the forum backlog. 

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2018 4:28 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Tool => Information can be configured to update: Hover or Click (with Hover providing Information update with no clicks)

The hover option is a move in the right direction, except that on my current system (i7 w/ 16g RAM) it takes 3-8 seconds to populate (L3 is near instantaneous), and even then the Info window eats up valuable screen real estate, because unlike the L3 pop-up window (which pops-up when you need it and disappears when you don't), the Info window is always open, or always closed, and it takes 3 or 4 or more clicks to make it come and go. Not only that, but the Info window is a glut of information compressed into an unwieldy space, so it results in a keyhole's view of data requiring further clicks to see what L3 provides with no clicks.

Grades:
L3 - A
L7 & L8 - D

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Default location for Information Tool is right hand side of main window (can be dragged to a different location), which is different than L3 pop-up:

Yes, different...as in inferior in practically every way. Using valuable screen real estate 100% of the time for those occasional moments (1% of the time) when you need specific info. When you do choose to hover (or click) to get the needed info, after the inappropriate wait time you get a fractional snippet, requiring further clicks to finally get your eroded satisfaction. I'm beginning to feel the D grade was far too generous.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2018 4:55 PM

Libby's also easier to read. Not sure why. One time I matched up fonts, then zoomed in to look at pixel rendering. When I got snappy BW, I checked him out too. Hmmm, Libby's got some sort of magic (but no prophesying).

I think the solution would simply be (as part of 8.1) to just get rid of all that needless homepage stuff, and put Libby there. That would be good.


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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2018 5:19 PM

David Paul:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Tool => Information can be configured to update: Hover or Click (with Hover providing Information update with no clicks)

The hover option is a move in the right direction, except that on my current system (i7 w/ 16g RAM) it takes 3-8 seconds to populate (L3 is near instantaneous), and even then the Info window eats up valuable screen real estate, because unlike the L3 pop-up window (which pops-up when you need it and disappears when you don't), the Info window is always open, or always closed, and it takes 3 or 4 or more clicks to make it come and go. Not only that, but the Info window is a glut of information compressed into an unwieldy space, so it results in a keyhole's view of data requiring further clicks to see what L3 provides with no clicks.

Concur Information Tool has opportunity for performance improvement(s). Thankful closing sections improves responsiveness (noticeably quicker to update two sections instead of all):

David Paul:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Default location for Information Tool is right hand side of main window (can be dragged to a different location), which is different than L3 pop-up:

Yes, different...as in inferior in practically every way.

Thankful for Retina Display 27" iMac, which has scaled option for Display (more space) with resolution of 3200 by 1800 (plus have an external monitor that could be used for Information tab, ...).

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2018 1:51 AM

Denise:
Libby's also easier to read. Not sure why.

This fact is a point I haven't made since the days right after L4 came out. I caught a lot of flak from the Logos cheering squad for saying so (many who went on to sport stars on thars), but looking at the screen shots above, it's pretty evident how much L3 POPS! compared to L7, which looks like it's spent some decades on tranquilizers. The post-L3 "look" is soporific and stodgy, if not antiseptic. I always feel more energized after I've finished a search on L7 (which I'm forced to do to access all my resources) and then switch back to L3. Libronix makes me feel like I'm in the battle...L7 (& L8, from what I'm seeing) makes me feel like I'm reading a middle manager's report.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2018 2:01 AM

David Paul:
Libronix makes me feel like I'm in the battle

Funny that's how it made me feel! I used 2 and 4 but hated 3 Surprise You and Denise are free to love it. I didn't.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2018 2:40 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Thankful closing sections improves responsiveness (noticeably quicker to update two sections instead of all)

Yes, I noticed this, too...though the word that comes to mind isn't "thankful" so much as "relieved". Being thankful that the current state of things isn't the equivalent of the raging pit of hell can be a comfort, I suppose, but it also seems to cheapen the sensation. Not being able to comfortably upgrade to the latest thing (you know, the ones that are supported) may not be on par with the trials of Job, but if I could get my needful L3 features in a current build of the program, I'd give serious consideration to talking on the second round of woe in return, as long as I could effectively use the program thereafter. What I do with Logos is my life, and I'm extraordinarily grateful for what it allows, but I'm not the least bit thankful that I am forced to jump through ever-narrowing hoops to continue to get the day-in, day-out utility I require and depend on, especially since the only reason I can fathom for not porting these productive features into the new versions seems to come across as something a whole lot like spite. One thing's for sure; it's not that the features don't have demonstrable usefulness and provide increased productivity...so I'm not sure what else it could be. And to think I've spent the last decade and longer sending them 25-50% of my meager monthly income. Do I feel appreciated? Thankful??

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