Data bug? Searching for resurrection event

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 4 2018 6:15 PM

In both 1 Corinthians 15:12 and Romans 4:25, the right-click menu has an entry labelled "Jesus is resurrected from death Event". If I select that item on the right and click "Search this resource" on the left, I get a single result:

Questions:

1) Is this not a data bug? Clearly in the gospels alone there should be more passages tagged with that event.

2) Since the right-click menu in the two passages I mentioned knew they referred to this event, why don't they show up in the results? Sometimes it seems to me that those who design these features don't realize what users will infer from what's being put in front of them.

Hopefully this is just a data curation bug. Thanks,

Donnie

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 4 2018 7:12 PM

I suspect it is in the search as I have no trouble getting Matt 28:6-7 NRSV as narrating the event.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 4 2018 10:31 PM

Donnie Hale:
Hopefully this is just a data curation bug.

I think it's a strange search bug.

It looks as though IF there is a Key Verses sub-section in the Passages section of the Facbook entry, only those results are returned in a search

If there is no Key Verses sub-section all results in the section are returned.

I've checked a few events and this seems to be the case.

Hopefully someone from Faithlife will comment further

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 6:43 AM

MJ. Smith:
I suspect it is in the search

I'm not sure how to interpret that. It sounds like you're saying that I need to correct the search / search syntax, or something like that. However, L8 constructed the search. Can you clarify?

Thanks,

Donnie

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 2:18 PM

It's a data bug - the Search may not be wrongly constructed

Dave
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 2:52 PM

Donnie Hale:
Can you clarify?

I'm saying that there are instances of the tag for the event that I can see through other means that are not being picked up by the search ... therefore I suspect that the problem is in the search itself ... not in the search argument which you constructed.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 6:06 PM

MJ. Smith:
I'm saying that there are instances of the tag for the event that I can see through other means that are not being picked up by the search ... therefore I suspect that the problem is in the search itself ... not in the search argument which you constructed.

Thanks for clarifying.

FL: Can anyone weigh in on this? Will it be corrected? Should I resign myself to using Factbook to find this information?

Donnie

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 7 2018 12:45 PM

Donnie Hale:

<snip />

1) Is this not a data bug? Clearly in the gospels alone there should be more passages tagged with that event.

<snip />

We've curated two kinds of references to biblical events:

  1. The text that defines or describes the event itself, in substantial enough detail to include things like the setting, and who was present
  2. Other mentions of the event

While there are several dozen NT passages that mention the resurrection or describe the aftermath of the resurrection (like the two you mention), Mark 16:9 seemed like the only text actually defining the event in this first sense. For example, John 20:11–18 is a post-resurrection appearance of Jesus to Mary Magdalene, not a description of the resurrection itself.

You can see this distinction most clearly in the Biblical Event Navigator, which spells out the differences.

We don't return mention references in search, since they're not describing the event itself. We have many examples like this of the "too much/too little" paradox. A large result set can seem like too much information, and make you wish for more focused results. More focused results can seem like too little information: what am i missing? Biblical Event Navigator and Factbook provide the most nuanced answers in this particular case.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 7 2018 3:50 PM

Sean Boisen:
what am i missing? Biblical Event Navigator and Factbook provide the most nuanced answers in this particular case.

How many particular cases can we expect?

If the 'event' is flagged, it is natural to expect the Search to return all the instance where it is flagged, else why provide the Search option or flag it in the first place?

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 8 2018 7:38 AM

Dave Hooton:

Sean Boisen:
what am i missing? Biblical Event Navigator and Factbook provide the most nuanced answers in this particular case.

How many particular cases can we expect?

If the 'event' is flagged, it is natural to expect the Search to return all the instance where it is flagged, else why provide the Search option or flag it in the first place?

Biblical Event Navigator is a special purpose tool, and for biblical events, it should always provide the most information, followed by Factbook. I didn't mean to imply that was true of some events but not others.

My point above is that what you're calling 'flagged' has two substantially different flavors. I believe it's possible to change search behavior to return both defining references for an event, and all mentions of an event, as one larger set of results. That would return all the references listed in Passage Guide as "Key Verses", as well as the "See Also" references. I suspect it would not be easy to have search treat event search as a special case and put the two kinds of references in different groups (as Biblical Event Navigator and Factbook do). So you wouldn't know from Search which references defined the event, versus mentioning the events.

If changing search to return mentions as well as defining texts for events seems preferable, I'm happy to pass this along as a suggestion.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 8 2018 1:21 PM

The current behavior is acceptable but ..... yes, a big but ... FL has to be certain that the user can easily find out exactly what they are looking at. It's the small details that can make or break one's research. I mean research in the broadest sense - for checking personal understanding, for teaching others or for academic puposes.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 8 2018 2:11 PM

Sean Boisen:
My point above is that what you're calling 'flagged' has two substantially different flavors. I believe it's possible to change search behavior to return both defining references for an event, and all mentions of an event, as one larger set of results. That would return all the references listed in Passage Guide as "Key Verses", as well as the "See Also" references. I suspect it would not be easy to have search treat event search as a special case and put the two kinds of references in different groups (as Biblical Event Navigator and Factbook do). So you wouldn't know from Search which references defined the event, versus mentioning the events.

I wasn't aware of the two kinds of references (although I might have wondered about some cases), but I'm concerned that Events one sees in the Context menu are not all returned by a Search. How many other datatypes behave like this? As a user, there should be a distinction, so that there are no surprises with search results.

PS. I put BEN to sleep some time ago because of its anomalous behaviour.

Dave
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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 10 2018 6:45 AM

Dave Hooton:

Sean Boisen:
My point above is that what you're calling 'flagged' has two substantially different flavors. I believe it's possible to change search behavior to return both defining references for an event, and all mentions of an event, as one larger set of results. That would return all the references listed in Passage Guide as "Key Verses", as well as the "See Also" references. I suspect it would not be easy to have search treat event search as a special case and put the two kinds of references in different groups (as Biblical Event Navigator and Factbook do). So you wouldn't know from Search which references defined the event, versus mentioning the events.

I wasn't aware of the two kinds of references (although I might have wondered about some cases), but I'm concerned that Events one sees in the Context menu are not all returned by a Search. How many other datatypes behave like this? As a user, there should be a distinction, so that there are no surprises with search results.

PS. I put BEN to sleep some time ago because of its anomalous behaviour.

We have a case to review this and determine what makes the most sense. As a general principle, I'd agree that what you see it in the context menu should be congruent with Search.

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 10 2018 4:55 PM

Sean Boisen:
We have a case to review this and determine what makes the most sense. As a general principle, I'd agree that what you see it in the context menu should be congruent with Search.

If I may add to this, I'd prefer the solution not be to reduce the number of items that show up in the context menu so that it becomes difficult to predict or find texts from which to initiate a search.

Thanks for replying to the thread.

Donnie

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