Cloud Computing Thoughts

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Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 11:00 AM

 

Andy,

I'm going to cut my answer short as you just said...I feel strongly about it and I think you haven't made a case, just restated your desire....so be it.... :) However I will address this statement:

Andy Bell:
It's fine to say this should never happen or that I have behaved like an idiot. But if you could prevent it (or reduce its likelihood) with one simple permission/option screen, then wouldn't you?

No. I wouldn't. Why is the line arbritarily drawn there?

The whole thing smacks of entitlement to me. Logo's responsibility has been carried out. They've put out the standard document outlining the risks and concerns....if people don't read or heed...ok fine...live with the consequences (if there are any, which so far...haven't been proven either.)

Seatbelts...in every car...can you refuse to take the responsibility to wear one?

Sure.

Who's fault is it if you get hurt while exercising your right to not pay attention to the caution on the seat belt strap?

What about the auto maker? Is it his fault? By your reasoning...it is. He should have put a HUGE sign on the dash that you can't miss....

But what about the guy who can't read?

Should the automaker make an audible alarm outlining the reasons that a seat belt should be used?

By your reasoning...its' just one more step and would solve the problem of those who can't read the seat belt sign...

 

And on and on it goes....

 

Personal responsibilty... :)

 

Brother..I'm done here....we've said the same thing over and over again...and I'm tired...let's call it a day....you get the final word on this ok?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 232
AndyTheGreek | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 11:53 AM

Robert Pavich:
Brother..I'm done here....we've said the same thing over and over again...and I'm tired...let's call it a day....you get the final word on this ok?

The only thing I wish to say is that I apologise if I have seemed OTT/paranoid/too ardent about this subject. Part of that comes from the fact that I deal with this every working day and my Company (I don't own it, just work for it) is incredibly cautious about data protection. You would (probably) not believe the fear that our customers have of data loss and we have to meet that fear in order to do business. The consequences of something going wrong in my business are all too real. We simply cannot afford to let our customers be careless. Anyhow, enough of that.

Some things we can surely agree on - Logos 3 & 4 are truly fine pieces of software. Logos4 is getting richer in functionality with each release and when it is 'complete' (relatively speaking) it will be awesome (or more awesome). By embracing 'The Cloud' Logos has moved into a bigger world , one that offers more but also demands more.

I'm sure the Logos team will continue to improve the product and add whatever features they deem necessary. I'm sure they listen to us and then take a view on suggestions. Sometimes we'll agree with them. Sometimes we wont. I appreciate a forum such as this where views can be expressed freely, without fear of being attacked - challenged yes - but not attacked. And challenges widen perspectives, so they can be a good thing.

Anyhow, I'm signing off now - got some new Resources to download and enjoy...

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 11:57 AM

I wonder... Does the government reads topics that are about the government reading things? Hmm

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 82
James Ng | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 11:58 AM

Matthew C Jones:

You missed what I said.

What I did not say is: "Lock the whiney kids in the closet and ignore them."
What I did say is" "Hey Bob! Give the squeeky minority what they want and maybe they will go enjoy using the program with their new found sense of security. It is really not worth the noise."

Ah my mistake. I misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 12:08 PM

Andy,

I know I said you'd have the last word but I had my fingers crossed behind my back.

I only wanted to add that I hope you didn't get offended at my tone. I'm passionate and bull headed much of the time, and don't know when to quit.

So..if I came off wrong...I apologize brother...forgive me.

bob

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 232
AndyTheGreek | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 12:49 PM

Bob

No forgiveness is needed. You stated your point of view. I stated mine. I took nothing personally and I hope that you didn't feel I was targeting you.

There are much bigger issues in life than this, that's for sure Smile

Posts 687
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 1:50 PM

The one part that really gets me is the whole personal responsibility argument... Doing something stupid like emailing your bank data to someone is personal responsibility. Is it personal responsibility if you bank says there is a small chance of information being hacked; which there is; so don't use online bill pay or send checks through the mail because someone can steal your routing and account numbers?

All most of us are asking for is that we be able to use the software for what it is marketed for! In the case of notes, sermons, etc... Please hack all you want, I would love for some hackers to come across our notes and sermons and by the power and grace of God that person find the foot of the Cross!

However the Prayer list is the potential hazard and if it is not or cannot be something that can be protected and we are going to be suggested to use paper journals or 3rd party options just eliminate the feature or market it clearly labeled that your data will be at risk and people's sensitive information in form of prayer requests will be at risk... To me this should be a no brainer. The prayer list is a powerful tool in Logos, but if I have to use something else to keep it secure along with keeping V3 for Smart Tags, Sermon File, PBB and having to copy & paste instead of printing among other things.... Then what is the reason that we should market V4 to others or for that sake use it ourselves? V3 does all this things with user control and security outside the cloud. As for the Sync function which is nice, it wouldn't be too hard to share V3 folders on your home network and sync between systems...

I have to admit, the right to make known a concern and have so many derogatory comments made toward those who want to have their voice heard, makes one not want to bother with the forums... Pretty sad that users who car for and want Logos to grow and remain the best, but want to voice their concerns with areas that DO need improvements have to be treated that way...

Posts 30869
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 2:16 PM

Frank Sauer:
The one part that really gets me is the whole personal responsibility argument...

Frank Sauer:
I have to admit, the right to make known a concern and have so many derogatory comments made toward those who want to have their voice heard, makes one not want to bother with the forums... Pretty sad that users who care for and want Logos to grow and remain the best, but want to voice their concerns with areas that DO need improvements have to be treated that way...

From my perspective, the forum issues on this topic boil down to:

  • does the post add anything to the argument or is it rehashing the same points from the same people?
  • does the post show that the author listened to the poster they are responding to?
  • does the poster engage in derogatory or inflammatory comments?

It is nice for the argument to be based on facts and logic, but that is optional.

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 376
Dan Sheppard | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:45 PM

Paul Golder:
I wonder... Does the government reads topics that are about the government reading things?

 

Are you assuming government employees can read?

 

 

Posts 687
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 5:03 PM

MJ. Smith:

From my perspective, the forum issues on this topic boil down to:

  • does the post add anything to the argument or is it rehashing the same points from the same people?
  • does the post show that the author listened to the poster they are responding to?
  • does the poster engage in derogatory or inflammatory comments?

It is nice for the argument to be based on facts and logic, but that is optional.

As for adding or rehashing - I believe there has been some added to the debate across the board, especially in the sense of the legal aspects that Logos can get caught up in, if a sweeping bill on privacy issues gets signed. As for rehashing, well nothing is getting done about a glaring problem. It may not be as crucial for some, but there was a lot of complaint about notes, which I never use personally, but I don't recall anyone getting pasted in that arena. I personally having not invested as much as many who are complaining have no problem going back to L3 and having a real, complete system for Bible Study in which I can not be concerned about a cloud. However I feel for those that invested much more into it and bought in based upon the marketing and not the facts of V4 as it stands now.

What this does impact for me is the thought of upgrading and/or buying new products, some of which I have had my eye on; however I can't see sinking another dollar into Logos until I see the final product and outcome of V4 and decisions like these. It has also held up our Bible College from promoting and the possibility of making Logos part of our curriculum... So what some call rehashing the same old argument, others may see as poor business and as investors in such business which we are in the cloud based system with no user control or back-up options, it is a concern.

Yet Logos remains silent, except for quotes about it never happening to save tech support $ and one about listening but it will be low priority... Seeing as high priority features have already been pushed back a quarter, what does that say about low priority?

Posts 30869
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:21 PM

Frank Sauer:
but there was a lot of complaint about notes, which I never use personally, but I don't recall anyone getting pasted in that arena.

The same principals applied to the debate on notes. There were complaints when it became rehashing; there were lapses in listening.

BTW, I do believe a UK user presented a solid case for  a limited version of this feature. Unfortunately some topics, including notes, get so much repetitive and inflammatory posts, that the reasonable request gets lost in the chaos.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 2 2010 9:40 PM

Andy and Rob, your last irenic exchange was a treat to read. Thanks for wrapping up so amicably, a great example.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 3 2010 5:41 AM

Jonathan Burke:
Andy and Rob, your last irenic exchange was a treat to read. Thanks for wrapping up so amicably, a great example.

Jonathan,

Why thank you very much...Andy's tone and demeanor was a model to me....a Christian attitude that was much appreciated...I'm glad that there are many brothers and sisters here on the forum that are models of behavior to me...I thank God for that.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 232
AndyTheGreek | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 3 2010 6:07 AM

I will admit that I had to look up the word 'irenic' Smile and, now that I know what it means, I too am thankful for being described as such. I know I do not deserve this description much of the time, but I am working on it...

I often tell my colleagues to relax, that it is 'only software', especially when deadlines approach and the pressure is on. Compared to the Big Scheme of Things these issues are relatively trivial, however much importance we personally attach to them.

I will admit to having learned a lot from Bob's point of view and, who knows, the next time I install something I may even read the EULA first Cool. I will also admit that I tend to rely on my Firewall to tell me if something is trying to connect to the Internet and I am not in the habit of blithely granting access without finding out why it wants to, especially if I wasn't expecting the software to 'phone home'.

Best wishes to all,

Andy

Posts 3727
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 3 2010 8:02 AM

After scanning many of the posts on this thread (I confess I didn't take time to read them all), & seeing that the flashpoint for concern seems to be the prayer list, why not have an "opt-out" option for synchronization of our data files? I think my preference (though mild) would be via the same method Logos uses to build a collection--though this time it would be an opt-out collection. Going a step further, perhaps there should also be an option for whether (by default) new data files go into this collection.

Blessings!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 3 2010 8:00 PM

I'm greatly disapointed that Logos does not add the option to let us disable all or selective "Sync to Amazon" in the application.

It does not matter if 10,000 users say they don't need or want this feature. Its important to the 10's or 100's or however many that say it is important. And to those that won't recommend or purchased from Logos until/unless this is addressed.

In my case, I have disabled my PC from ever connecting to the sync service, so my notes etc stay local. Why can't it be a simple option on the menus, rather than by forcing the application to get an error every time it attempts sync?

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 3:53 AM

For Bob's thoughts on selective sync and related issues:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/17936/134883.aspx#134883

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 4:39 AM

Dominick Sela:
For Bob's thoughts on selective sync ...

Thanks - I've read that one now, and the other times Bob has spoken on the related ideas.

I just think Logos is wrong on this matter. As a user I can not agree with the position the company has taken with my access and control of my data.

I love most other aspects of the Logos4 application, and its a great tool to read or search for something. Its just useless as a way to create and manage user-data of any kind.

Posts 82
James Ng | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 5:49 AM

JimT:

It does not matter if 10,000 users say they don't need or want this feature. Its important to the 10's or 100's or however many that say it is important. And to those that won't recommend or purchased from Logos until/unless this is addressed.

Vote here then if you haven't for the feature:

http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/660833-add-an-option-that-allows-a-user-not-to-upload-the?ref=title

It has gone up a bit recently.

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