the new Logos 8 Notes Tool - loss of Logos 7 Note file functionality

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This post has 52 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019 12:34 PM

hi Logos !! and everyone!

I'm missing loss of funtionality from Logos 7 notes.

Although the new Notes tool has many advantages, there is so much missing. Great there hjave been upgrades to the Favourites menu in Logos 8.2, but still remaining, 

TITLED NOTE FILES - 

the Title  of each NOTE FILE showing up in the windows tab- for one screen organisation assists a lot if there are 10-30 note files open 

and so that a new note can be sent directly to a chosen NOTE FILE directly from by right clicking the context tab (going directly to a specific NOTE FILE without any further tagging or renaming etc) allows work at speed

Using 30 notes at the same time is incredibly powerful, it means using them quite differently to post it notes, but using each titled NOTE FILE as a seperate resource for reading, information, they can be quite large and built up over years, clever use of formatting helps, and the split screen. 

 NOTE FILE functionality is seperate to PBs becuase the NOTE FILE resource can be edited in logos in real time ( the PB has to be rebuilt outside Logos etc) . I

one of over 20 different scenarios-  for example when reading a text book I used to have at least 5 Logos 7 NOTE FILES   for each of many types of study/ topic /  approach/ associated with different aspects of work....., building a series of different resources for later use.

I'm quite convinced no one at LOGOS yet appreciates how the former NOTE FILES could be used as seperate named resources in this way, because if  they had have done the functionality would not have been lost.

I'm sure and very surprised.... they did not realise how powerful the Logos 7 notes files could be, and how they could be used..( a great many other logos users also!...).

. and therefore might still not be fully aware how the loss of functionality is impacting some users, 

hopefully someone at logos is reading this! I will happily explain more directly to logos or chat over the phone if it would help...

best wishes

Michael

Posts 4557
Forum MVP
Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 24 2019 3:58 PM

The Notes tool will likely continue to get attention and improvements. Here is a link that demonstrates the direction we will likely see the notes tool take.

https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016616512-Notes-FAQ

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 12:03 PM

hi

thanks for the link,

which indicates logos 7 NOTES TITLES functionality is indeed being cut. 

  • I hope somone at Logos can explain they do understand significance of this reduced functionality,
  • how it impacts power user of notes wiht many note files opena at the same time.
  • Do they really appreciate the fucntionaliy and possiblities of this way of working
  • why it is being cut, whether the functionality is simply impossible or not recognised as singificnat or a priority
  • why they cannot find a way of implementing NOTE TILES into the windows tab and the context menu for highlighting

best wishes

Michael

Posts 4557
Forum MVP
Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 2:31 PM

I can tell you this was discussed during the L8 beta. I was a fan of having titles as well. To be honest though this was not a high priority issue for most.

I do not know if there underlying coding hurdles, or something else within the tool that makes it difficult to incorporate titles. Perhaps there is. Maybe someone can FL will see this thread and be able to provide more insight.

Posts 2042
LogosEmployee

Michael Perry:
which indicates logos 7 NOTES TITLES functionality is indeed being cut. 

That link talks about Note Titles being removed. That's different from Note Document (Notebook) titles.

For your problem with Notebook titles not being shown on tabs, I have no further information beyond Adam's response to Wayne earlier: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/176832/1027818.aspx#1027818

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 2:43 PM

hi Fredc thanks for the reply

I would love to see an outline of the discussion of TITLED NOTE FILES at the L8 beta.

I'm convinced that Logos are not aware of the signficance of their functionality on the basis of someone from Logos/Faithlife asking a user on one of these forum/threads how and why the user had so many note files open, why and how so many note files oculd be simulatenously used.....

so I really would like to hear some discussion from logos/faithlife about it.

I've invested a lot of time and money in a very effective way of working, so many ways and variations, using TITLED NOTE FILESas independant resources

I have written posts about this many times recently, but no one from faihtflife has replied the issue is understood, yet alone why the fiuctionality hjas been unrecognised or lost. 

Hoping the TITLED NOTE FILES will be restored or ...?

best wishes

Michael 

Posts 3108
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 2:44 PM

Fredc:
I was a fan of having titles as well. To be honest though this was not a high priority issue for most.

Tab titles were nice for L7 on the infrequent occasions when I had two Notes documents open.

Since notebooks will be showing up in Docs, perhaps there will be more of a need for corresponding tab titles for the times when we have more than one notebook document open.

Fredc:
I do not know if there underlying coding hurdles, or something else within the tool that makes it difficult to incorporate titles. Perhaps there is.

If it can be done in L8, I'd prefer a specific (notebook) title rather than a generic Notes title.

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 2:47 PM

hi Andrew

Thanks for your email. I had just posted the question again elsewhere in this thread.

In the first instance can someone from faithlife/logos provide  reassurance the functionality issues are actually understood and recognised??

I keep typing posts about the signficiance of the loss of functionality without knowing whether anyone understands the issue ...I'm repeating over and over again?

best wishes

Michael 

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 2:52 PM

hi

thanks for the coment on this important topic

I would work on as daily basis with 5-30 note files open because I used TITLED NOTE FILES as independant resources, because unlike PBs they cvan be edited in real time. In order to use this system with  1000's titled note files it was necessary toi use the FAVOURITES menu as a Titled notef file LIBRARY.... so I dragged the NOTE FILES to my own folder/subfolder system in the favourites menu

TITLED NOTE FILES and the FAVOURITES MENU worked together - for an amazingly effecitve way of working and using many titled note files. 

I'm sure not many users and no one at Logos/faithlife is actually aware of this!!!!!!!

best wishes

Michael 

Posts 2042
LogosEmployee

Michael Perry:

In the first instance can someone from faithlife/logos provide  reassurance the functionality issues are actually understood and recognised??

I keep typing posts about the signficiance of the loss of functionality without knowing whether anyone understands the issue ...I'm repeating over and over again?

I am a Faithlife developer. The green leaf under my portrait indicates that I'm a Faithlife employee.

I suspect no one from Faithlife responded further to the issue being posted in multiple places because Adam Borries responded in the other thread indicating understanding of the problem, and that it should be easy to fix.

I checked, and it turns out that the issue is already being investigated for a possible fix in an upcoming beta. I'm not, however, going to make any promises until it actually shows up implemented in a release. Things happen sometimes...

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 3:26 PM

hi Andrew

thank you for your reply. I'm new to the forums, thanks for pointing out how to recognise your Faithlife status. 

I had noted that Adam had indicated recognition of that there were

1/ no titles showing up in the tabs, and that should be easy to fix.

however...

2/  nothing has been said about those NOTE FILE TITLES showing up in the context menu after right clicking? 

3/ timescales? Obviously I was not aware when the titles in the windows tabs  might be fixed, weeks, months, years etc or if it was recognised as significant to be urgent. ??

hence as whether it is marked as urgent or not depends upon recognition of the wider issue, notably how TITLED NOTE FILES can be used as independant resources.....I have continued in the hope this is or might be recognised? and if there are other issues in this regard...

it has been great the FAVOURITES menu issues ( with Note files)  have been returned to Logos 7 functionality. 

 best wishes

Michael 

Posts 338
LogosEmployee
Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 4:10 PM

Hi, Michael, 

Just a very quick response here. Yes, we've scheduled the developer work to put the notebook title in the Notes panel tab. This means writing the code; it will take some time for that functionality to filter down through our shipping cycle so you see it working in the app. Like Andrew, I hesitate to put a date on it, since surprises can happen. It might turn out to be harder than we thought, or some other urgent thing might take priority, or maybe it will just turn out to be a bad experience and we need to think of a better solution; but, if all goes well, we are talking on the order of weeks, not years. :) 

On whether notebook titles should appear in the context menu, we have an ongoing internal debate. No decision has been made at the time of this writing. 

--Adam 

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

Message me on Faithlife.com >>

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 4:23 PM

hi Adam

thanks for your reply. 

Regarding the interal debate about whether NOTE FILE TITLEs should appear in the context menu,

I expect its fairly self explanatatory and obvious how that feature works with the TITLED NOTE FILES - ( for the reason it was in Logos 7 and before)

- as it means highlights can be sent to any of  choice of  a number of different open TITLED NOTE FILES

- without any further tagging or renaming, - which allows a good workflow

FOR EXAMPLE when  reading a text book and making simultaneous notes in different contexts/reasons ...., already sorted off into completely different TITLED NOTE FILES which are being used as STANDALONE RESOURCES for collecting information, for editing and reading, cross referencing etc over years....

which becomes effective on a large ongoing scale if the TITLED NOTE FILES are dragged off into the FAVOURITES MENU developed into a USER DEFINED LIBRARY by clever use of folders and sub folders etc, blanks, numbered, font etc

I'm happy to send more info, or messenger chat or phone call regarding this if it is not so obvious to someone who has not been using this sort of system for ages...

best wishes

Michael

Posts 26021
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 5:20 PM

Michael Perry:
how that feature works with the TITLED NOTE FILES 

Just a hint form an old IT professional - "file" is not a term that will serve well in the new notes system. You'll gain proficiency in the new system faster if you think of the notes as a pool of independent notes organized by indexing information/tags. It is similar to Google being a pool of independent documents organized by indexes.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2019 5:35 PM

hi thanks for the tip.

I appreciate that the new NOTES TOOL is a different system for organising NOTES.My point has been a corresonding loss  of functionality from the former LOGOS 7 NOTE FILES. 

 I have been hoping funtionality will be developed in the NOTES TOOL to correspond with the LOGOS 7 TITLED NOTE FILES ...at least.

1/ each note has a NOTE TITLE which shows up in  the windows tab ( for easy on screen organisation if 20-30 of them are open. At present there it is just "NOTES" in the tab, so cannot distinguish one from the other.

2/ If the TITLES show up in the context menu- then highlights can be sent to one of a  different TITLED NOTE (Resource) 

I hope this brief explanation makes sense 

best wishes

Michael 

Posts 24560
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2019 1:20 AM

Michael Perry:
I hope this brief explanation makes sense 

Perfectly, and without having to use the new terminology...

Your issue would be one of my frustrations if I used Notes/Highlighting extensively.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 29 2019 8:28 AM

hi Dave

thanks for your reply.

Is it likely I can also be reassured Logos/Faithlife are aware of this issue as described and here recognised as obvious important and urgent?

Or should a direct reply from someone with the Logos/faithlife icon be sought to be sure it is properly recognised or if not then someone at Logos/Faithflife would tell me why not so that i could at least understand why not?

best wishes

Michael 

Posts 21635
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 29 2019 8:33 AM

Michael Perry:
Or should a direct reply from someone with the Logos/faithlife icon be sought to be sure it is properly recognised or if not then someone at Logos/Faithflife would tell me why not so that i could at least understand why not?

Adam above is the product manager for Logos 8 so is the ideal person to respond to this.

I think, reading his response, that they are planning to address one of the issues you raise and are discussing the other (notebook names in context menu). 

And so we are waiting on the outcome of that discussion.

Posts 74
Michael Perry | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 30 2019 1:54 AM

hi Graham

yes I thought that as well,

but wondered whether I ought to seek more clarity that such an important issue is now fully recognised.

It seems to me that once TITLES in the window's TABS is restored, it must be obvious to restore the complimentary functionality  of having those TITLES appear in the CONTEXT menu,

but as the developers have such a lot to consider, I wondered if these posts are read by logos /faithflife or whether it is as obvious as it seems to me, or whether I ought to make a direct message to saomeone  else/elsewhere to be sure all matters are taken into consideration before that discussion /decision takes place. 

best wishes

Michael 

Posts 21635
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 30 2019 1:55 AM

Michael Perry:
but as the developers have such a lot to consider, I wondered if these posts are read by logos /faithflife or whether it is as obvious as it seems to me, or whether I ought to make a direct message to saomeone  else/elsewhere to be sure all matters are taken into consideration before that discussion /decision takes place. 

My best suggestion would be to contact Adam directly - he has messaging details in his post above.

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