Bug: Logos 7 Maps Broken

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Posts 92
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Feb 20 2019 7:22 AM

Maps should be simple and easy to use.

1. They should work hand in hand with your favorite Bible

2.  They should go to the contextual map dealing with the city in the passage

3.  They should zoom in on that same contextual map to the city selected in the Bible

I ultimately would like to single click on a city and the right map for that context will show up in the atlas and it will zoom in to that city.  We have the same single click feature with lexicons. 

Try this:

Go to 2 Samuel 24:5 in the NKJV

This passage is dealing with David’s Census

Right click on Aroer and choose Aorer of Reuben and then atlas. I then get Ar near the dead Sea in the Map Biblical World-the Exodus from Egypt and 9 other maps showing.  So I need to guess which map I am dealing with in the text.  OK so I will then right click on Aroer and choose the event David takes a census and then choose atlas.  It then goes to the Biblical World United Kingdom Map.  Ok I finally then click on David’s Census Map in the Atlas.  I go to the city Jazer in my bible in 2 Samuel 24:5  and right click Jazor atlas and it takes me away from the David’s Census Map and back to the Biblical World-United Kingdom Map.  Yes I have my Bible and Atlas linked together with link A.  Try right clicking on Tahtim Hodshi in 2 Samuel 24:6 and choosing Atlas.  Nothing happens! Where is the city?

Please fix this!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2019 1:51 PM

What are you hoping to achieve when you've already had feedback in your Waldo thread?

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 92
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2019 2:15 PM

Dave Hooton:

What are you hoping to achieve when you've already had feedback in your Waldo thread?

My Waldo thread was focused on Biblical Places Maps and the Zoom Level. and here is the response from Adam Borriss: 

John, 

I'm sorry this is frustrating you. We spent a significant effort last year improving the maps experience in the Atlas, both in terms of data and functionality. We don't plan to invest any more in the Logos 5-era "Biblical Places" resource, but I would welcome any feedback you have about Altas. 

So I'm giving some objective feedback on Logos 7 Maps since the problem with Biblical Places Maps will not be fixed.  It seems like the focus is on Logos 7 Maps and I would like these maps to be usable as well.   

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2019 2:22 PM

John Brumett:
My Waldo thread was focused on Biblical Places Maps and the Zoom Level. and here is the response from Adam Borriss: 

The discussion then reverted to Atlas and much of what you said above.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 92
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2019 2:53 PM

Well I decided to start a new thread because the shift was now on Logos 7 Maps.  In the old thread toward the end I was simply responding to Adam's questions in the thread.  Some times here on the forum people are encouraged to start a new thread when the issue is not exactly the same.     

Posts 92
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2019 3:02 PM

Actually what I have introduced here is something new that I did not mention in the prior thread. The frustration of not going to the contextual map as a first resort when you are in a passage.

In the prior thread I mentioned other issues

1. Biblical Place Maps- Fix the Zoom Level  (My original issue)

2.  Having Maps in other atlas that deal with the same event appear as thumbnail below

3.  Creating a filter that will work with your Bible so people can easily find the places with their map and Bible open side by side

 

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2019 2:46 PM

John, here's the behavior i'd like to see in Atlas: when you

  • bring up the context menu (right-click) menu on a place name in the Bible
  • select the event on the right side
  • select Atlas on the left

then Atlas should display the best map for that event (if there is one). Currently it displays the relevant era map (like "Life of Jesus") instead.

This may be somewhat different than what you're envisioning, but i think it would address at least some of your frustration. I'll see if we can add this to our development roadmap. 

Posts 1391
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2019 4:11 PM

John Brumett:

Maps should be simple and easy to use.

1. They should work hand in hand with your favorite Bible

2.  They should go to the contextual map dealing with the city in the passage

3.  They should zoom in on that same contextual map to the city selected in the Bible

I ultimately would like to single click on a city and the right map for that context will show up in the atlas and it will zoom in to that city.  We have the same single click feature with lexicons. 

Try this:

Go to 2 Samuel 24:5 in the NKJV

This passage is dealing with David’s Census

Right click on Aroer and choose Aorer of Reuben and then atlas. I then get Ar near the dead Sea in the Map Biblical World-the Exodus from Egypt and 9 other maps showing.  So I need to guess which map I am dealing with in the text.  OK so I will then right click on Aroer and choose the event David takes a census and then choose atlas.  It then goes to the Biblical World United Kingdom Map.  Ok I finally then click on David’s Census Map in the Atlas.  I go to the city Jazer in my bible in 2 Samuel 24:5  and right click Jazor atlas and it takes me away from the David’s Census Map and back to the Biblical World-United Kingdom Map.  Yes I have my Bible and Atlas linked together with link A.  Try right clicking on Tahtim Hodshi in 2 Samuel 24:6 and choosing Atlas.  Nothing happens! Where is the city?

Please fix this!

John, perhaps the screen shot below is a closer match to what you're hoping for.  It's from a different Bible app, but in right-clicking on Aorer and selecting the option to "look up on map", it opened this map as shown and put Aorer in red.  I then followed the same procedure for Jazer and it added two possible sites for Jazer to the map in red, while leaving Aorer in red.  When I followed the same procedure for Tahtim Hodshi, a small popup window appeared with the message that it couldn't be found on a map--so no more luck than with Logos, but at least you know an attempt was made.  Please note that I had the map limited to a fairly small window in the application.  It could have been placed in a larger window or made full screen if desired in order to see a larger area of coverage.

The maps in Logos are perhaps my biggest area of disappointment--in part for some of the things you noted, but I have found the response time with the Atlas to be so slow as to discourage me from attempting to use it most of the time.  Then of course, there's the issue that it's dependent on an internet connection, which I really wish wasn't a requirement.  Even with that requirement though, I might be tempted to try using the Atlas more often if it wasn't so very, very, very slow.

However, having expressed my frustration with Logos maps, I still have to say Logos is my Bible app of choice for most other aspects of Bible study.  I use it nearly every day and would feel a great loss if I could no longer do so.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2019 8:25 PM

Rick Ausdahl:

...

The maps in Logos are perhaps my biggest area of disappointment--in part for some of the things you noted, but I have found the response time with the Atlas to be so slow as to discourage me from attempting to use it most of the time.  Then of course, there's the issue that it's dependent on an internet connection, which I really wish wasn't a requirement.  Even with that requirement though, I might be tempted to try using the Atlas more often if it wasn't so very, very, very slow.

...

Rick, could you help me understand the slow response time you're experiencing for Atlas? If i don't have the Atlas tool open, and i select Atlas as described above, it takes about five seconds on my MacBook to open the panel and zoom in.  How does your experience compare? Or is the slowness something different? 

Posts 92
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2019 6:32 AM

Sean Boisen:

John, here's the behavior i'd like to see in Atlas: when you

  • bring up the context menu (right-click) menu on a place name in the Bible
  • select the event on the right side
  • select Atlas on the left

then Atlas should display the best map for that event (if there is one). Currently it displays the relevant era map (like "Life of Jesus") instead.

This may be somewhat different than what you're envisioning, but i think it would address at least some of your frustration. I'll see if we can add this to our development roadmap. 

Thanks for your response Sean.  No the problem is with making the revelant era maps a priority instead of the maps in context (event maps).  If I was studying David's Census from place to place I would click on the place in my Bible and it would zoom in on that place then I would click on the next place in the census and it would zoom in on that place without switching maps.  The same for Paul's Missionary Journeys, ect.  I think the potential problem in your solution is once I am in the event map and go to the next city in that event it would make the map switch back to the relevant era map.  

Posts 92
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2019 6:39 AM

Rick Ausdahl:
Please note that I had the map limited to a fairly small window in the application.  It could have been placed in a larger window or made full screen if desired in order to see a larger area of coverage.

Although I like the functionality of the map showing the place in red I would rather have it zoom in to the city of interest and have it zoom in to the next city I choose.  It wouldn't necessarily have to show the last city or cities I clicked on.   

Posts 1391
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2019 9:12 AM

Sean Boisen:

Rick Ausdahl:

...

The maps in Logos are perhaps my biggest area of disappointment--in part for some of the things you noted, but I have found the response time with the Atlas to be so slow as to discourage me from attempting to use it most of the time.  Then of course, there's the issue that it's dependent on an internet connection, which I really wish wasn't a requirement.  Even with that requirement though, I might be tempted to try using the Atlas more often if it wasn't so very, very, very slow.

...

Rick, could you help me understand the slow response time you're experiencing for Atlas? If i don't have the Atlas tool open, and i select Atlas as described above, it takes about five seconds on my MacBook to open the panel and zoom in.  How does your experience compare? Or is the slowness something different? 

Hi, Sean.  Thank you for the question.  I'll explain, but am thinking I should start a new thread if we have more than an exchange or two--I don't want to hijack John's thread.

Here are a few examples of what I mean by slow.

  1. I had a simple layout open (just a few resource tabs and had not used the Atlas yet) and then I repeated John's first example where he right clicked on Aroer, chose Aorer of Reuben, and then Atlas.  After selecting Atlas, it took 12-15 seconds for the map's initial load and a total of about 21-22 seconds before Logos finished rendering the map.
  2. Once fully rendered, changing positions on the map is laggy and choppy--the change of position does not flow at all with the finger movement on the touchpad which makes it very hard to determine how far the map will actually move as a result of the request using the touchpad.  I find the amount of time it takes for the map to move varies from 2-4 seconds much of the time but sometimes takes longer, and because of the lag, the new position of the map is rarely what I was after, hence more position change attempts are required.
  3. Zooming in and out on a map are also very laggy and choppy.  As with changing positions of a map, the zooming does not flow with finger movement on the touchpad and the lag time is often so great, that I have no idea how far in/out the map will have zoomed when it finally catches up and settles down.  Usually, it's nowhere near what I was shooting for.  That leaves me dependent on the +/- zoom controls.  But even there, the lag time from tapping the zoom control to the map being resized is usually at least 3-4 seconds and sometimes longer.  And of course, there's no way to know how much a single tap will actually change the zoom position, so it can easily require 3-5 taps with the lag each time, and then a repositioning of the map with the lag that comes with that as well.
  4. Finally, there's the issue of changing from one map to another on the list of maps displayed on the Atlas.  Even though the Atlas is already open, changing to a different map usually takes 4-5 seconds and is not usually zoomed in to the position and range I'm looking for, so the laggy, choppy process of zooming and positioning the map starts anew.

FWIW, my "stated" internet speed is 12 Mbps and I often get 10-11 Mbps when doing speed tests.  I ran speed tests immediately before and after playing with the Atlas for this response and was getting 10.5-10.8 Mbps and I was the only one on our network at the time.

Equipment wise, I'm running a 2.5 GHz Intel I7-6500, have 16GB of RAM, and a 250 GB SSD.

Thanks again for your inquiry.  You're interest is much appreciated.

Posts 1391
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2019 9:38 AM

John Brumett:

Rick Ausdahl:
Please note that I had the map limited to a fairly small window in the application.  It could have been placed in a larger window or made full screen if desired in order to see a larger area of coverage.

Although I like the functionality of the map showing the place in red I would rather have it zoom in to the city of interest and have it zoom in to the next city I choose.  It wouldn't necessarily have to show the last city or cities I clicked on.   

Hi, John!  Actually the map was automatically repositioned with each new location request, and the initial zoom position was (in my opinion) a good choice.  Of course, as with Logos, you can always change the zoom position manually.

FYI, prior to taking my screen shot of the map used in my reply, I repositioned the map a bit so you could more easily see that the highlighting of Aorer from the first request was still there after making the request for Jazer.  I like that because it makes it easier to see the relationship between the two locations in terms of distance and direction, but I suppose that may or may not be of value depending on your search purposes.

The bottom line though is that I'm really hoping for a good map solution within Logos! 

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LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2019 10:31 AM

Thanks Rick. You're probably right about starting a new thread. This is significantly slower than my experience (though there are a lot of variables): I'll pass this along to our Devs to see if there are any ideas. Can you confirm your Logos version?

Posts 1391
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2019 10:35 AM

Sean Boisen:

Thanks Rick. You're probably right about starting a new thread. This is significantly slower than my experience (though there are a lot of variables): I'll pass this along to our Devs to see if there are any ideas. Can you confirm your Logos version?

Logos version is 8.2.0.0015

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