Catholic Daily Readings dates need to be updated for 2020 and beyond

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Posts 19
JT | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 1 2019 6:50 AM

The dated listings for the CDR seems to finish at the end of the current liturgical year, on November 30, 2019 (see pic attached). Though the three year cycle means the CDR is useful even without it, I frequently use the particular date to look up the daily readings etc. and the work I do means that I'm often preparing material months in advance. I suspect I'm not the only one who uses the date to find lectionary readings - not to mention the Logos/Verbum system itself which I suspect needs to use dates too (not sure about that).

Short version, the CDR date listing need to be updated to include the 2020 liturgical year and beyond. I'm not sure if requests needs to be made elsewhere. If so, please let me know. Otherwise, consider this a formal request to the powers that be if this could be updated and soon. Thanks.

Posts 161
LogosEmployee

The Catholic Daily Readings is in the process of being expanded, along with all of our other non-Catholic lectionaries.

I'll check and see what their timeline for completion is for the CDR, but the plan is to have it done well in advance of the change in liturgical year.

Craig St. Clair | Verbum Product Manager |

Posts 19
JT | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2019 9:43 PM

That's good to hear - and thanks for your response. Look forward to seeing the updates or at least finding out when they come. As I said, I'm working on material that pertains to coming liturgical seasons. It will be only a month or two until I'm looking for 2020 material. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one. Can be worked around of course, but the functionality of Verbum is a big reason we use it so appreciate that it's being at least looked at.

EDIT: Also, noticed the duplicate post that I seemed to have created. Not sure how that happened. Apologies, would delete if I could.

Posts 161
LogosEmployee

The Catholic Daily Readings update will be complete in the coming weeks.  The other main denominational lectionaries will also be completed along with the CDR.  The three Byzantine and Daf Yomi: Cycle 13 lectionaries will be coming at some point in the future (before the end of the year).

I'll update this thread when the CDR update is completed.

Craig St. Clair | Verbum Product Manager |

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 9:14 AM

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife):
The Catholic Daily Readings update will be complete in the coming weeks.  The other main denominational lectionaries will also be completed along with the CDR. 

Many thanks!

Maybe if the team is at it, some lectionary-like resources could be part of the effort - I'm thinking especially of Oden's Ancient Christian Devotional which already has three liturgical calendar indexes, but lacks YearMonthDay to work (see this thread for more context - the resource once was a FBOTM, but bugs people until today

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 1:52 PM

NB.Mick:
YearMonthDay to work (see this thread for more context - the resource once was a FBOTM, but bugs people until today

Please see the referenced thread for my plea not to do this. Logically it doesn't work as YYMMDD and included entries varies from year to year. It would create a maintenance nightmare. Instead consider maintaining:

  • a liturgical calendar - there are only a handful as many calendars are identical despite the names of the dates changing; updating it could "update" the relevant lectionaries, prayer books, devotionals ... that utilize it decreasing the product maintenace
  • a sanctoral calendar - secular dates but with saint's days assigned - one per denomination but they change slowly
  • a secular calendar - you already use this.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 2:27 PM

Yes, I am replying to myself - to point out the basic structure of the liturgical calendars:

  • Rule 1: the liturgical calendars currently of interest to Logos are built around two dates: Christmas which is a fixed date and Easter which is a variable date. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgical_year for the Oriental Orthodox calendar which I am deliberately ignoring.
  • Rule 2: most calendars are on the Gregorian calendar but some still use the Julian calendar.
  • Rule 3: the seasons of Advent and Christmas form a block of dates that are counted from Christmas. As the day of the week of Christmas is variable, the number of days of the Advent season is variable so the block is not a fixed number of days. Note that the length of Advent varies depending on the rite but the principle defining the block of date remains fixed.
  • Rule 4: the seasons of Lent, Triduum, and Easter form a block of dates that are counted from Easter. Here, the number of days is fixed within a calendar but the length of Lent varies by rite. Some calendars extend the block with "pre-lent" (Septuagesima, Sexagesima, Quinquagresima). Two notes: there are two ways of calculating the date of Easter resulting in two different calendars and the secular date of Easter varies by nearly a month resulting in significant differences in the liturgical calendar across years.
  • Rule 5: the liturgical calendar begins either on the first Sunday of Advent or on Sept 1.
  • Rule 6: all other dates are determined by counting forward or backward from the beginning or ending of a block (rules 3 & 4) or from the start of the liturgical year.

While the names of the dates vary significantly, the underlying calendars do not. 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 2:30 PM

MJ. Smith:
Logically it doesn't work as YYMMDD and included entries varies from year to year.

I'm not against "real" support for liturgical calendars, but currently all lectionaries in Logos work on a YYMMDD scheme. Yes this means "included entries vary from year to year", which is exactly the point of this thread as all of them run out in Nov 2019 with the end of the current church year.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2019 2:37 PM

NB.Mick:
but currently all lectionaries in Logos work on a YYMMDD scheme.

"Sort of" as the YYMMDD has to be updated for each year. A true YYMMDD would not require updating. This updating results both in an increased size of the resource and in increased maintenance cost. This results in FL being hesitant to add additional lectionaries, prayer plans, small church calendars ... because the increased costs require a larger market.

Yes, I have never been impressed with the implementation of lectionaries which combined the lectionary and the ordo - two separate resources - at the cost of unnecessary increased maintenance.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 27 2019 4:21 PM

JT:

That's good to hear - and thanks for your response. Look forward to seeing the updates or at least finding out when they come. As I said, I'm working on material that pertains to coming liturgical seasons. It will be only a month or two until I'm looking for 2020 material. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one. Can be worked around of course, but the functionality of Verbum is a big reason we use it so appreciate that it's being at least looked at.

EDIT: Also, noticed the duplicate post that I seemed to have created. Not sure how that happened. Apologies, would delete if I could.

but today it got a response with an update:

Kyle G. Anderson:

good news: there's an update coming out on Monday to it and the rest of our lectionary resources.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 19
JT | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 27 2019 5:49 PM

NB.Mick:

JT:

That's good to hear - and thanks for your response. Look forward to seeing the updates or at least finding out when they come. As I said, I'm working on material that pertains to coming liturgical seasons. It will be only a month or two until I'm looking for 2020 material. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one. Can be worked around of course, but the functionality of Verbum is a big reason we use it so appreciate that it's being at least looked at.

EDIT: Also, noticed the duplicate post that I seemed to have created. Not sure how that happened. Apologies, would delete if I could.

but today it got a response with an update:

Kyle G. Anderson:

good news: there's an update coming out on Monday to it and the rest of our lectionary resources.

Great, good to hear.

Need some moderator to merge these threads. I feel like a dope for having created them. Will be all moot soon anyway by the sounds of it if the update is coming.

Posts 273
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 2 2019 8:08 PM

NB.Mick:

but today it got a response with an update:

Kyle G. Anderson:

good news: there's an update coming out on Monday to it and the rest of our lectionary resources.

Did this happen?

NB.Mick:
Maybe if the team is at it, some lectionary-like resources could be part of the effort - I'm thinking especially of Oden's Ancient Christian Devotional

Still looking for support for "Ancient Christian Devotional: A Year of Weekly Readings: Lectionary Cycle A"

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 4 2019 2:01 PM

Andrew:

NB.Mick:

but today it got a response with an update:

Kyle G. Anderson:

good news: there's an update coming out on Monday to it and the rest of our lectionary resources.

Did this happen?

It did happen today: At least the Anglican, Catholic, Lutheran, and other Protestant lectionaries with YMD index in my library got all updated today with additional twelve years, i.e. now running until Nov 2031. Thanks Faithlife!

EDIT: In line with what Craig wrote above, /EDIT It seems the Orthodox lectionaries didn't make it (hope they will soon, as they run out some time in 2019) and Daf Yomi didn't, either (Jewish Talmud reading, current lectionary running until early 2020). And I didn't see any lectionary-type resources that previously lacked the YMD index updated to now show one.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 161
LogosEmployee

I'm happy these updates were able to get out sooner rather than later.  Folks here on the forums were starting to ask for them.

From the last update I got from the dev team: "The (3) Byzantine and Daf Yomi: Cycle 13 lectionaries will be coming at some point in the future (before the end of the year)."

Craig St. Clair | Verbum Product Manager |

Posts 1
Michael Bombak | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 6:06 AM

The Liturgical Year for the Byzantine Churches begins Sept 1st. Any updates on the lectionaries? Will we have to purchase those again or do they continue with our base libraries?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 1:02 PM

Welcome to the forums, Michael. The lectionary should be updated automatically although from the post above yours it may be a bit late this year.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 161
LogosEmployee

We're still on track to have the Byzantine lectionaries updated by the end of the year.  Unfortunately, they won't be updated by the beginning of the new liturgical year on Saturday.

I'll be checking in with the dev team periodically and I'll update the release timeline as I have more information.

Craig St. Clair | Verbum Product Manager |

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