Do you think we could change the way we phrase things on the forum?

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This post has 54 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 82
James Ng | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 6:40 PM

Robert Pavich:

Paul Golder:
Do you think that a sense of entitlement could be a contributing factor?

Most definitely.

I've had that word pop into my head many times while reading some of these threads.

but of course...that's just my opinion Wink

I think that difference in perception is part of the problem. One side thinks the other is making unreasonable demands and the other side views it as asking for features or improvements or a better way to do things. It depends on which side of the specific topic you're on but it does seem to ultimately degenerate into something along those lines unfortunately.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 6:41 PM

Robert Pavich:

Paul Golder:
Do you think that a sense of entitlement could be a contributing factor?

Most definitely.

I've had that word pop into my head many times while reading some of these threads.

but of course...that's just my opinion Wink

I am reminded of two social network posts, by the same friend, within 24 hours:

"Yea! The no smoking law passed. Now I can go to the club, and the owner won't be allowed to let people smoke"

"I can't believe they made texting while driving illegal. Who are they to tell me what I can't do?"

(emphasis added)

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 386
Clinton Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 6:44 PM

Robert Pavich:
Clinton, that was my phrase....the intent was to show the difference between a dogmatic derogetory statement,

This is probably what drove me to respond to your post. Specific bad behaviour should be addressed to the specific person behaving badly, not as a warning canon shot across the bow of all those who feel let down by the / missing features/lack of speed/. It seems to me that this nature of a post will stop those who are less bold from raising an issue, or providing a brilliant solution (you know, like I always do Wink) because they are afraid of the reaction they will get.

Robert Pavich:
Fair enough....but you didn't ignore this thread...Wink

I'm addressing a sane person who has stated a perceived problem, not the rantings of a maniac, so this is a #1 from my list.

Yes, I think we should behave as adults, but I do not think people are as much out of line as you do.  

Finally, most of what is posted here is subjective, so unless someone is reporting a bug, or stating an obvious fact, it will be a subjective opinion and maybe another suggestion would be to mentally insert  the words "in my opinion" when reading most postings.

 

Posts 31350
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 6:51 PM

Robert Pavich:
.this is something that i really need to learn more of.

Yeah, the trick we need to learn is not just to ignore the first 97 threads and the first 400 but at least up to 70 times 70. Wink

What I struggle with is ignoring those that hijack a thread and leave a bad impression for the PO. I don't see any easy answer.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 6:57 PM

MJ. Smith:
What I struggle with is ignoring those that hijack a thread and leave a bad impression for the PO. I don't see any easy answer.

What would be a fun experiment is to give the PO's editorial control over there respective posts.

Even if it's just for a day or so, I'm sure the results would be quite telling.

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 7:02 PM

Clinton Thomas:
another suggestion would be to mentally insert  the words "in my opinion" when reading most postings

Good idea.

I know many don't like ongoing disagreement but on several occassions I have been won over by somebody who took the extra pains to explain to me what they really meant. I've noticed on my "sick days" or late night postings my content suffers. (Some of the others posting have similar track records. Sad )

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 31350
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 7:14 PM

James Ng:
One side thinks the other is making unreasonable demands and the other side views it as asking for features or improvements or a better way to do things. It depends on which side of the specific topic you're on but it does seem to ultimately degenerate into something along those lines unfortunately.

I think you are generally correct ... but what gets to me is questionable or false statements presented as truths repetitively in multiple threads. As an MVP I feel an obligation to at least skim all threads in which I might be able to aid a user. There is a point at which it starts seeming like a waste of time - the same issue is brought up on many threads with nothing new to say - and the real issue of the OP gets lost. If people remain polite and logical it is much easier. But sometimes it is so tempting to label posts as one of the byproducts of the bovine digestion process. [hey, my Dad raised cattle]Big Smile  I once had a teacher who marked essays with where appropriate. So far I have successfully refrained. But I also feel sorry for the people who have the same concerns which they have expressed clearly and with strong supporting statements. Their posts get lost in the repetitive posts and they don't get the hearing they deserve.

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 7:25 PM

I suppose my caution on the issue would be twofold.

1) When negative comments need to be made make due diligence to relay them in a way that conveys the least emotional response. Forums and email just don't convey emotion well. Keep it as technical and bland as possible while still conveying your desired urgency for the issue. This is not an easy task so...

2) When tempted to respond to the emotional level of a post exhibit grace and respond only to the technical elements of the email recognizing the difficulty the poster faced in conveying his thoughts.

In all things grace. And when giving grace seems difficult solve the situation by giving more grace.

Posts 2874
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2010 8:20 PM

Well said, Robert.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 5 2010 3:46 AM

Clinton Thomas:
maybe another suggestion would be to mentally insert  the words "in my opinion" when reading most postings.

 

As I said before Clinton...you are correct. It's part character defect on my part also....I'll keep that in mind Brother...thanks.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 5 2010 3:49 AM

Philip Spitzer:
In all things grace. And when giving grace seems difficult solve the situation by giving more grace.

 

Like this?

 

Quote:
Given the fact that your count is much higher then mine and you posted a post that had no other value then pointing out my posting to boost my count, I hereby challenge you to a splinter/plank measuring contest.

 

Wink

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 5 2010 3:52 AM

Robert Pavich:

Like this?

 

Quote:
Given the fact that your count is much higher then mine and you posted a post that had no other value then pointing out my posting to boost my count, I hereby challenge you to a splinter/plank measuring contest.

OH my Eye...My Eye.....AAAHHH, It's bleeding....ahhhhh

 

Posts 232
AndyTheGreek | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 5 2010 10:51 AM

I admit that I find it hard to remain objective, especially when I have a strong opinion about something. And I'm most certainly not limiting that to Logos related topics. It can be human nature to 'defend' our beliefs and, of course, history shows that some have resorted to atrocities in order to defend their 'established truth'. Not that atrocities occur here in the forums, I hasten to add.

I agree with Robert that adding the phrase 'I feel' or 'I want' or 'IMHO' helps to diffuse or eliminate conflict as it makes it clear I'm just stating my opinion/desire and what I say should not be taken as an attack on someone who has a different view.

It can be hard to control the tone of postings when someone has misunderstood me - it's all to easy to interpret that they have done so with a poor motive or even maliciously. Most, if not all, of the time, it's just a misunderstanding and it could be me misunderstanding them.

When it's clear someone is not 'getting' my point I do try to restate it more plainly,simply and coherently rather than take offense and start an argument (in the confrontational sense).

I keep reminding myself that Logos is only software. It's a tool to help me do my research and whilst I may want a new feature or disagree with some of its implementation it still enables me to be, probably, 500% more effective in my studies than if I were just using printed books.

So I will take on board the intent of this thread and try to be objective, helpful, understanding of others and, when I have a strong POV, to state it in a calm and respectful way.

Posts 1142
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 5 2010 11:21 AM

Clinton Thomas:

  1. If a person asks a question about the software and I can help, I answer the question
  2. If a person complains (even if it is over the top) and asks a question about the software, I try to acknowledge the frustration, ignore the complaint, and answer the question. Proverbs 15:1
  3. If a person complains (and it is over the top) and does not ask a question about the software, I ignore them. I try not to  post about it, and not add any fuel to the fire. I  just leave it on the floor. Proverbs 26:4

I believe if everyone did this, the signal to noise ratio would improve dramatically and the flame wars would stop or be limited.

 

I say Let Logos police those who are out of line privately.They can do this, and if this does not work, they can ban users.

 

Finally, I believe that if I find that ignoring the complainers is too much for me to stand, I should probably channel my energy into a different activity/ministry. I believe that lIfe is too short to get upset about stuff like this.

Yes, Clinton, I totally agree.  Very wise words.  Thanks!!!  God Bless.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 5 2010 12:00 PM

Andy Bell:

I admit that I find it hard to remain objective, especially when I have a strong opinion about something. And I'm most certainly not limiting that to Logos related topics. It can be human nature to 'defend' our beliefs and, of course, history shows that some have resorted to atrocities in order to defend their 'established truth'. Not that atrocities occur here in the forums, I hasten to add.

I agree with Robert that adding the phrase 'I feel' or 'I want' or 'IMHO' helps to diffuse or eliminate conflict as it makes it clear I'm just stating my opinion/desire and what I say should not be taken as an attack on someone who has a different view.

It can be hard to control the tone of postings when someone has misunderstood me - it's all to easy to interpret that they have done so with a poor motive or even maliciously. Most, if not all, of the time, it's just a misunderstanding and it could be me misunderstanding them.

When it's clear someone is not 'getting' my point I do try to restate it more plainly,simply and coherently rather than take offense and start an argument (in the confrontational sense).

I keep reminding myself that Logos is only software. It's a tool to help me do my research and whilst I may want a new feature or disagree with some of its implementation it still enables me to be, probably, 500% more effective in my studies than if I were just using printed books.

So I will take on board the intent of this thread and try to be objective, helpful, understanding of others and, when I have a strong POV, to state it in a calm and respectful way.

 

Andy...we are A LOT alike.

I'm going to take your advice (confession) to heart. Thank you for the wise council.

And same to all the others on this thread who've got more wisdom than I posses at this point. Much appreciated.

 

bob

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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