Francis: Doc B:I'd like a text comparison tool which would function with the addition of any manuscript, including original language fragments, codices, medieval texts, modern versions, etc. I have said before and will say it again, whichever Bible software first implement a reliable way of doing this will (1) make a major contribution to the history of biblical studies and (2) attract many academics who will want to use this. This would be a big time game changer. If FL does not want to do it or does not care for the idea, then perhaps another competitor will do it first and FL (and us logos users) will really be sorry if that happens.
Doc B:I'd like a text comparison tool which would function with the addition of any manuscript, including original language fragments, codices, medieval texts, modern versions, etc.
I have said before and will say it again, whichever Bible software first implement a reliable way of doing this will (1) make a major contribution to the history of biblical studies and (2) attract many academics who will want to use this. This would be a big time game changer. If FL does not want to do it or does not care for the idea, then perhaps another competitor will do it first and FL (and us logos users) will really be sorry if that happens.
I'm a long way from being an expert in this area but it looks as though - assuming we have the specific resources in our libraries - that the Text Comparison tool does this
What am I missing?
Graham Criddle:What am I missing?
First, it only works with a single common reference, not any two texts. Thus, one cannot compare parallel passages in synopses or find/analyse differences/similarities in wording in other passages. I could not, for instance, compare the Greek text of Josephus' Antiquities where it covers biblical events with the passages in the LXX that speak of the same.
Second, the tool only flags unidentical text. It does not have the ability to compare shared terminology such as variants of the same lemmas. As such it does not provide the ability to detect intertextuality in longer portions of text. Detecting possible relationships between ancient texts is a very important domain of scholarly inquiry.
Third, it is a limitation to work from a base text. For instance, if working with the Synoptic Gospels, one would want to have all relationships reflected (double-tradition, triple-tradition, special M, special L, etc.). Just as in colour-coded editions of the Synoptics, one would want the differences to use different visuals to highlight relationships between more than two texts.
The current tool is simply not built for scholarly work on manuscript/primary sources comparisons.
Thanks Francis
Appreciated, Graham
In addition to what Francis said, it will only translate if the resource has an interlinear, and it will only work with tagged items (so it can't be easily used with the tool that looks at ancient manuscripts, for example). Some kind of OCR would fix this, but as I hinted, is asking a lot, especially if it is to work with Greek and Hebrew, and those miniscule texts that test the patience of museum curators.
But I agree with Francis' assertion this kind of feature would be a game-changer in the bible software industry.
My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.
Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.
Francis:The current tool is simply not built for scholarly work on manuscript/primary sources comparisons.
I have reason to be interested in manuscript processors outside NT, OT manuscripts and, from the academic software I have seen shared, think that you are requesting what must be treated as separate tools. I believe that Faithlife is far more likely to make progress in this area, if we can break the functions that we want down and describe them more precisely. I feel strongly about this because the development of the Concordance stopped short of providing the features that were most useful in the academic software I suggested as a solid model.
You get the drift. A book Denise recommended A New Approach to Textual Criticism: An Introduction to the Coherence-Based Genealogical Method (Resources for Biblical Study 80) Resources for Biblical Study Tommy Wasserman, Peter J. Gurry in an odd way overlaps with what you are requesting.Or another way of putting it, you are asking for a comparative text analysis package far ahead of any I have seen from the major research institution sites.
Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."
Two items were particular annoyances for me. First, in the mobile app, entering Greek or Hebrew text into the user input fields of workbooks never seemed to work correctly. I ended up having to type my answers into a word processor, then copy and paste them into the workbook - this was a major time sink. Second, while I appreciated being able to select the citation format, one annoyance was that when I quoted a resource and copied the text into Word, I couldn't control whether it gave me a full footnote appropriate for the first reference, or an abbreviated footnote appropriate for subsequent references. It would have been really, really helpful if there had been a smart way to indicate whether I wanted a full footnote, an abbreviated footnote, or a bibliography entry.
Phil Gons (Faithlife):During the next six months, we plan to make some improvements to Logos 8 for academic and seminary users with an emphasis on original language study.
I'm really happy to hear this! Here's my list:
Diagnostic Logs
Reuben Helmuth: Search Create a full search builder that makes it easy for non-power users to construct accurate, complex searches Simplify the search syntax (most useful for the command-line approach) Also, auto-complete search syntax elements Also, highlight syntax errors Hebrew Independent affix highlighting Vowel pattern searching Fix BBHG (involves the addressing the bigger Unicode encoding problem) although I'm more interested that the upcoming new edition has the formatting finesses Bugs Inaccurate/Incomplete Morph Charts [will link here later] UI bugs in the Syntax search window [will link here later] Cantillation search bugs [Text Segment Lemma, Visual Word Lang, AND/OR Logic]
I was reminded today that one of the biggest improvements I think you could make to reverse interlinear support is to tag all the different versions with sense data, and to add tagging to the Textus Receptus.
It would be very powerful to be able to search and find out which translations followed which manuscripts and made similar interpretations.
Rick Brannan agrees: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/163312/966213.aspx#966213
Adam Olean:Phil, I'm grateful that you and Faithlife will be working on improvements in these areas. Here are a few ideas:
And here are several more (sometimes echoing other requests in this thread):
Adam Olean:Hebrew New Testament by Franz Delitzsch. This significant and useful translation is in the public domain. Seems like a no-brainer!
This translation is so much better!
Adam Olean: Hebrew Audio Bible. (Restored) Koine Greek Pronunciation Audio Bible (and Church Fathers, "LXX", Josephus's Jewish Wars, etc.). A couple scholars who are capable of this would be Randall Buth and Benjamin Kantor from the Biblical Language Center. Benjamin Kantor is producing Koine Greek audio and video resources at an impressive rate on KoineGreek.com.
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1
One thing that has always irritated me when using Logos is that in most programs when I double click a word that word becomes selected, but in Logos it brings up a dictionary entry, even for English words. I rarely want to see the definition of an English word, but double clicking on a word is part of my habituaI process when Icopy and paste, which I do from Logos frequently.
The ability to have multiple sets of resource linking in the mobile version would be helpful.
Integrated citation manager (like an import of Zotero) so that all non-logos sources could be stored in a database and annotated by the user from within the program (basically a souped up version of Nota Bene).
The ability for users to create custom citation schemes or to override citation output on specific resources.
The ability to track annotations of non Logos PDFs and ePubs (not importing material, but allowing for ebook management and annotations similar to Calibre).
Adam Olean: Reduce excessive/disproportionate Hebrew-Aramaic font sizes in resources. This formatting issue is particularly bad in some resources. I'm not sure that BHQ is the worst offender and I realize that it will vary depending on one's setup (e.g., monitor, display settings, and fonts), but the default setting is HUGE compared to LHB, for instance. With my current setup, I currently have BHQ set to the smallest font setting and leave LHB at the default (or third setting/notch). (BHQ has other significant formatting and editorial issues, as I mentioned previously.) Finer font-size gradients (desktop, mobile, and web). Because individual users, user setups, and resource-layouts are not identical, it's necessary to offer users the tools for achieving the most comfortable and readable settings. A large and rich digital library like Logos should, and usually does, offer some of the best font and page display settings. When it comes to font sizes, however, I currently find that some of the most basic, free programs allow me to select readily from a much wider and fuller range of font sizes and to find the best one with ease.
Font sizes of Greek and Hebrew resources is definitely something that could be improved upon. I would suggest the following two changes along the lines of what Adam mentioned:
1. Unify the size of Hebrew and Greek fonts across resources, especially Bibles. As mentioned, some are much larger than others for no apparent reason.
2. In the settings, allow us to adjust the default size (or scaling) for each font. I would like to be able set my Hebrew and Greek font to 120% size by default, while my English font stays at 100%, for example.
Line-spacing in mixed Hebrew/English is very distracting.
I would like to see different layouts as tabs at the top of the work space. It would be very helpful to be able to change layouts like clicking on tabs in a web browser. For example in a browser one can go to different pages by clicking on tabs, in Logos it would be helpful while studying to have tabs that changed to different layout.
not sure if this was super relavent to the thread? But hope it will be considered!
Thank you,
JD
JD Wilhite:I would like to see different layouts as tabs at the top of the work space. It would be very helpful to be able to change layouts like clicking on tabs in a web browser.
Welcome to the forums. I suspect that this could be very helpful for some professors using Logos in the classroom.
Mark Barnes:I was reminded today that one of the biggest improvements I think you could make to reverse interlinear support is to tag all the different versions with sense data, and to add tagging to the Textus Receptus.
I know we've done some work in this area (LN & sense tagging of TR variant units) but I'm not sure of how or when it will be released. I'll check, though.
Rick BrannanData Wrangler, FaithlifeMy books in print
Rick Brannan (Faithlife):I know we've done some work in this area (LN & sense tagging of TR variant units) but I'm not sure of how or when it will be released. I'll check, though.
That's good news!