Questions about moving from print to Logos?

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Mark A Moore | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Apr 10 2019 9:45 AM

Hello, friends. I've been a Logos owner for years, but only a Logos user for about the last eight months. For several years I've treated Logos as nothing more than a Bible search engine. I continued to buy print commentaries, dictionaries, theology books, Christian living books, etc., never dreaming of making the move to an all-digital platform. I've read fiction solely on my Kindle Paperwhite since the first Kindle came out, but never could convert when it came to nonfiction. I finally decided last summer to begin exclusively using Logos for sermon prep. That turned out to be the gateway to a whole new world. I now find myself wishing that all my books were in Logos and I find that I am now frustrated when something is not available. Trying to read a print book with a pen or highlighter feels cumbersome and unintegrated into the rest of my life. I'm finding that thousands of books are sitting in my study untouched for nearly a year.

I have a number of very practical questions that I'm hoping you as veterans can help me with.

  1. Do you typically buy only Logos books or do you buy Kindle books as well? There are so many great daily Kindle deals on books that I read straight through and don't "plan" on using for research, but am now wondering if there are times in the future when if I owned them in Logos instead of Kindle they would be searched in my library when I'm doing research on a topic and have long since forgotten the contents of that book. 
  2. If you do read Kindle books, do you import or your highlights into Logos so that they can be accessed in the future?
  3. Is there any difference in buying Logos books and Faithlife books? I have noticed on one occasion that the same book was cheaper as a Faithlife book than a Logos book, which made me wonder if there was a difference in how it would work or integrate into my Logos experience.
  4. Is there any way to import Banner of Truth ebooks into Logos? The Banner ebook experience is not the greatest.
  5. What have been the biggest challenges for those of you who have made the full conversion to primarily all digital books? Any advice on how you overcame those? For me, the challenge is that I'm accustomed to my own system of marking texts and being able to flip through a book scanning the pages and easily following the flow of an argument based on my markings. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to do this well.

Sorry to ask so many questions in one place, please don't feel you have to answer all of the above. I'm grateful for any advice you can give. Thanks for letting me learn from you.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2019 10:09 AM

Welcome to the forums.

I have used Logos since it was called Libronix. For a while I would use a combination of digital and print resources. For the last ten years or so, I have used logos exclusively. In fact, I have given away most of my print library. That which remains I never use.

Mark A Moore:
Do you typically buy only Logos books or do you buy Kindle books as well?

Seldom. Occasionally there may be a book I am interested in reading outside of Logos, but that is rare. 

Mark A Moore:
If you do read Kindle books, do you import or your highlights into Logos so that they can be accessed in the future?

I'm know of no way to import highlighting from a Kindle book into logos

Mark A Moore:
Is there any difference in buying Logos books and Faithlife books?

ebooks from Faithlife reside in your library with all of your other logos resources. The main difference between the two formats is tagging, The differences in price is likely a result of the cost associated with formatting them for distribution.

Mark A Moore:
Is there any way to import Banner of Truth ebooks into Logos?

I do not think it is possible to import ebooks from another provider. I could be wrong about the ebook format. If I am I'm sure someone will chime in. If you have the ability and rights, you may be able to convert an ebook to a .docx format, then create a Personal Book in logos using the .docx

Mark A Moore:
What have been the biggest challenges for those of you who have made the full conversion to primarily all digital books? Any advice on how you overcame those?

At first was getting away from the idea that I needed something on paper. I would create notes and sermons inside logos and then print them and file them. Improvements to the sermon editor on the desktop and mobile apps resulted in seldom printing anything at all. For years I do all of my study and sermon prep in logos; create the sermon document in logos, then preach using my ipad and the logos app. 

Hope this helps

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2019 10:42 AM

Mark A Moore:
Do you typically buy only Logos books or do you buy Kindle books as well?

I primarily buy Logos books. I'll buy Kindle books only if they're not reference books and either very cheap or not available in Logos.

Mark A Moore:
If you do read Kindle books, do you import or your highlights into Logos so that they can be accessed in the future?

No. Although I've very occasionally manually done this when I later buy a Logos book that I've read on Kindle.

Mark A Moore:
Is there any difference in buying Logos books and Faithlife books?

Yes. The Faithlife eBooks have been converted automatically, whereas Logos books are done by hand. eBooks can have wonky formatting, and the only links they have will be to the Bible (and then only if the reference is written out in full – e.g. "Jn 3:16" will be linked, but "v16" won't be). Thanks to those Bible links, eBooks are still a little better that Kindle, though.

Mark A Moore:
Is there any way to import Banner of Truth ebooks into Logos?

Yes, but you'd need to check you're happy that doesn't violate Banner's licence agreement, and the formatting won't be perfect. Use Calibre to convert from the .mobi file to .docx. Then import the .docx using Logos' Personal Books tool.

Mark A Moore:
What have been the biggest challenges for those of you who have made the full conversion to primarily all digital books? Any advice on how you overcame those?

I'm really a digital native, so it's not been an issue for me. Switching to a 10" iPad instead of my Kindle Paperwhite helped a bit. But most of my study I do at my desk with two 21" monitors. I've more than enough screen real estate to be able to compare and scan texts.

If you want to follow-up any of these answers, please just ask.

Posts 3
Mark A Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2019 11:15 AM

Thanks, Fred and Mark.

One of the reasons that I've enjoyed reading in the Kindle app on my iPad is because I can click one button and instantly see all of my highlights within that book. This is helpful if discussing a book in settings like a staff meeting or an elders meeting.

Is there a similar feature that I'm missing in the Logos app? Is it possible to quickly view all of the highlights I've made within the book that I have opened and am reading? Or do I need to open a new something else in the app and somehow navigate to the highlights for that book?

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2019 11:46 AM

Hi Mark

I think you will readily find using an iPad or Kindle Fire really helpful in accessing Logos books. The Logos mobile app really makes your Logos library truly portable. 

I began transitioning to Logos from a book library when Logos 4 came out. I thought I was cool with bound books, but there really is no substitute. My major play to do floating tabs with books. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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J. Remington Bowling | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2019 11:59 AM

I wouldn't expect to ever find complete peace of mind when it comes to what format you buy books in and how you handle notes. At least, I haven't. The reason is that there are legitimate pros and cons to all the formats (kindle, paper, Logos) and how you balance them will depend on your own circumstances. 

1. I try to buy in Logos over Kindle when I have the money or when the Kindle book isn't insanely cheap. However, I waffle over this and sometimes I miss reading print books and the research which shows that people tend to retain more information from print books nags in the back of my mind. I usually buy a print book if Amazon is doing the Matchbook deal (buy the print book for regular price and get Kindle for between $0 - $3.

A few days ago I bought the print edition of The Doctrine on Which the Church Stands or Falls for $38 and I was able to get the Kindle edition for just $3. Why do both? Because I can have the joy and advantages of reading a print book and also quickly search the text later and copy and paste any info I need.

2. No, but I have been contemplating doing that since Logos has upgraded the Notes tool. 

3. Others probably already answered this.

4. Don't know.

5. When it comes to whether to buy Logos or Kindle the most difficult choice is money. Of course Logos doesn't have a lot of books, so there the choice is easy: Kindle. When it comes to whether to buy print or digital then my difficult comes down to how can I best retain this information? Again, all the evidence I've seen points in the direction of print books, but I've tried to off-set this by always making sure that I'm reviewing important material or arguments from the book. I use Anki to do this, since it sets the schedule for me automatically. All I have to do is open the app and read through what is due that day. 

Mark A Moore:
For me, the challenge is that I'm accustomed to my own system of marking texts and being able to flip through a book scanning the pages and easily following the flow of an argument based on my markings. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to do this well.

It's a lot easier to jump between highlights in both Kindle and Logos than it is in a print book. With the filters that you can use in Logos it's also easy to mark up a text as much as you want without permanently cluttering the text so that you can read it "fresh" again later.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2019 2:30 PM

Mark A Moore:
One of the reasons that I've enjoyed reading in the Kindle app on my iPad is because I can click one button and instantly see all of my highlights within that book. This is helpful if discussing a book in settings like a staff meeting or an elders meeting.

I'm not aware of how to do that on the mobile app because the mobile app seems to only support compact view. But the web app works for this purpose, and you can use it on an iPad.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2019 4:10 PM

Mark A Moore:
Sorry to ask so many questions in one place, please don't feel you have to answer all of the above. I'm grateful for any advice you can give.

I'm in a hurry right now and I think you have received some good answers. I did want to say that I have moved to nearly 100% Logos. I have sold or given away nearly all of my "dead tree" resources. I have over 1000 kindle books, but most were free or cheap. I don't even buy many of the cheap ones anymore. For the most part my kindle purchases are books which I would not want in Logos (i.e. novels). 

The sole "killer feature" of Logos (for me) is as a "research library." For that, it excels. 

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Posts 260
Greg Corbin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2019 7:53 PM

Mark,

   I see you are a Lead Pastor too.  I use Logos daily for my personal devotion and for sermon preparation - having been a user since 2008.  I would like to take a somewhat different approach to your question regarding completely converting to Logos. 

   For me personally, I was a pastor for 14 years before purchasing Logos - accumulating a 1000 volume personal library, including several expensive commentary sets, grammatical tools, and reference works. Over the last ten years, I have gradually converted almost exclusively to Logos resources. I now have a 3500 volume theological library in Logos - including all of those expensive commentary sets I have in print. I also have many more great commentary sets and reference tools. Studying in Logos allows me to study with far greater depth and precision in the same amount of time. For instance, using paper books, I would consult maybe five commentaries on the passage I am studying to preach. Now, it's not uncommon for me to look at fifteen commentaries. Detailed original language studies are a few clicks away instead of searching through large print lexicons and dictionaries. There are handful of good, older resources that I only have in print. Occasionally, I consult them, but I often go two or three weeks without pulling anything off of my shelves.

   That being said, I have chosen not to sell or give away my print library. In fact, I am about to begin the process of slowly purchasing some key resources in print that I presently only have in Logos.  Why am I doing this?  It's my way of practicing redundancy with my study resources. I believe that Logos will be around in 30 years, but this way I ensure I always have adequate tools "just in case."  I will continue to upgrade Logos for new features and resources tied to those features, but my Logos library has reached the point where I purchase much more judiciously.

Posts 3
Mark A Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2019 2:17 PM

I really appreciate all the helpful feedback. I haven't really considered selling or getting rid of any my printed books at this point. I've actually continued to buy printed books, but I'm now finding that about ten pages into one I put it down and hop online to see if it is available on Kindle or Logos because the user experience is no longer the same (can't read as fast, underline as quickly, access footnotes/endnotes as easily, etc.).

The opposite seems to be the case when I read the Bible. If I'm reading it on my iPad I get about half a chapter in and then want to mark up my printed Bible. I'm not sure if it is a familiarity with where the text is on the page, spacial recognition maybe, but I feel out of sorts when I don't "see the text" the way I'm accustomed to. This results in me reading or studying a passage in my printed Bible while having Logos opened and tracking along for references, original languages, word searches, commentaries, etc. I'm guessing if I would commit to reading the Bible solely on my iPad for the next month I would wind up with a new system of marking, highlighting, and retaining what I read. A lot of this may be due to me not knowing how to fully implement a coherent system of keeping track of highlights, notes, clippings, etc. I've been an Evernote user for years, so the Logos notes tool is another area I'm trying to use and understand while realizing it's another new system and process with a learning curve.

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2019 2:44 PM

Mark A Moore:
What have been the biggest challenges for those of you who have made the full conversion to primarily all digital books? Any advice on how you overcame those?

I've been a bookaholic since Bible College days in the mid 80s. (I even worked in the Bookstore at Moody Bible Institute.) I have since moved the VAST majority of my Library to ebooks (>95% in Logos) and have begun giving away dead tree resources to my "Timothys". My current research Library is 591 paper titles, 3987 Logos Resources, 89 Kindle Titles and about the same in Pradis or WordSearch. 

My 2 biggest challenges are 1)loaning resources to those I counsel or mentor because I want to be a resource to those I lead. While Logos/Faithlife have some free libraries the learning curve on the software (and even the app) is daunting to many laypeople. 2) Neuroplasticity - current brain research indicates that paper and ink (both in reading and writing) use different neuro pathways in the brain that seem to influence memory. I'm curious about if I will be able to recall in my 80's as today's saints recall from their lifetime of study.

When I need a book my shopping order is 1. Logos; 2. Faithlife ebooks; 3. Kindle; 4. Addall.com for used print books.

Living in our 4th home in the last 7 years, I can say I'm thankful for my paper to electronic ratio :)

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2019 4:58 PM

David Thomas:
My 2 biggest challenges are 1)loaning resources to those I counsel or mentor because I want to be a resource to those I lead. While Logos/Faithlife have some free libraries the learning curve on the software (and even the app) is daunting to many laypeople.

Having the ability to loan resources ranks up at the top of my wish list for Logos. It is indeed a drawback but I can't think of much else that is.

David Thomas:
2) Neuroplasticity - current brain research indicates that paper and ink (both in reading and writing) use different neuro pathways in the brain that seem to influence memory. I'm curious about if I will be able to recall in my 80's as today's saints recall from their lifetime of study.

I think that the jury is still out on this but it is something to consider. I now have 95% of my library in Logos and almost exclusively do my reading and study in Logos. So far I have no regrets.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2019 5:35 PM

David Thomas:
I'm curious about if I will be able to recall in my 80's as today's saints recall from their lifetime of study.

I feel that my ability to remember what I study has not diminished very much since I entered the ministry at 38. I have now moved into the early 80s (Late start due to fist career—USN).

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