Breath of life

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This post has 56 Replies | 4 Followers

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 6:34 AM

Nathan Barnes:
I noticed that you missed the whole point...resources are great but mindset is better.  Lexicons are great but mindset is better..do you want me to go on...?  How lame, mr. m.j., this is not about "rules", the whole context of this thread is about how to use L4  to understand the original language...ie mindset.  So as long as we play along in (conform to) this "greek" utopia we are within the "rules".  You missed the whole point dude.

That would be "dudette".  "Martha" puts the  M in MJ.  Smile 

Having established that, Martha and Rosie's point is that theological debate is not permitted in the forums.  These are forums on how to use Logos software to their fullest extent.  If we can keep the breath of life discussion within that realm - we can continue it and live within the Forum guidelines which Rosie posted. 

 

 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 7:11 AM

I think we can allow ourselves some latitude with asides, e.g. concern for Rosie's health - or does she count as an integral part of Logos Bible Software?  I think it's important to show respect for those with whom we differ and not rubbish those who think differently or hurl insults at one another.

Rosie, I too have appreciated your help so often.  Incidentally it took me a long time to realise that your photo showed a dog sitting on your shoulder - at first I thought it was either a zoom lens or a telescope!  To have one of my dogs looking over my shoulder, he'd have to have his feet on the ground and his head over his paws on my shoulder!  Must work on it.

Incidentally, (?Martha?) how do I find the reference in Torah thro time to speaking spirit?  How can I search in a single book?

 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 8:20 AM

Here I go replying to my own post again. (Getting to be a bad habit.)

Matthew C Jones:
There are enough tools in Logos to give an answer to the first statement. If the Hebrew scholars who told me what it says are correct, your deduction is on target

 After reading a few of the "there is no literal hell" posts I think I may have misunderstood your final deduction "living creature." This is why it is necessary to go to the original language. English can be so vague. I refuse to mud wrestle in theological debate today. (One day at a time, right?)

My point of clarification is: Those Hebrew scholars have told me there is a difference between animal life and human life based on this verse.

My recommendation is to jump on that Pre-Pub before it starts shipping today. http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5876

And study for yourself. The world is full of false doctrine and erroneous opinions.

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Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 9:03 AM

nicky crane:
e.g. concern for Rosie's health - or does she count as an integral part of Logos Bible Software?

I tried to make an Icon on the Toolbar for the command "Ask Rosie to see if she can find an answer" but could not get it to save.

After trying everything I could, I decided that its not a supported comand, and maybe Rosie just helps when she likes ...

(Thanks Rosie - just teasing in what I hope you understand is a fun way Smile)

Posts 128
Nathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:09 AM

Thomas Black:
That would be "dudette".  "Martha" puts the  M in MJ.  Smile 

My "mindset" was Gender Neutral....

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:25 AM

nicky crane:

I think we can allow ourselves some latitude with asides, e.g. concern for Rosie's health - or does she count as an integral part of Logos Bible Software?  I think it's important to show respect for those with whom we differ and not rubbish those who think differently or hurl insults at one another.

Rosie, I too have appreciated your help so often.  Incidentally it took me a long time to realise that your photo showed a dog sitting on your shoulder - at first I thought it was either a zoom lens or a telescope!  To have one of my dogs looking over my shoulder, he'd have to have his feet on the ground and his head over his paws on my shoulder!  Must work on it.

Incidentally, (?Martha?) how do I find the reference in Torah thro time to speaking spirit?  How can I search in a single book? 

A dog?  I thought she was holding a camera with one hand on top of the body and the other under the lens (the way I hold a camera for a vertical shot).  Considering the mountain in the background I thought the camera was most likely.  

Perhaps you could be a bit more explicit regarding "the reference in Torah thro time to speaking spirit" since I'm not sure what you're asking.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:37 AM

Edit: I changed my mind, so deleted what I had here before.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:46 AM

nicky crane:
how do I find the reference in Torah thro time to speaking spirit?  How can I search in a single book?

If you open a book, you can select "Find in this panel" from the resource menu or CNTRL +F  will bring up the search window.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:48 AM

George Somsel:
A dog?  I thought she was holding a camera with one hand on top of the body and the other under the lens (the way I hold a camera for a vertical shot). 

 

I think Rosie said it was her camera in an old post. If it is her dog,maybe she is about to toss him vertically...........

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:00 PM

Nathan Barnes:
I noticed that you missed the whole point...resources are great but mindset is better.

Actually I didn't miss your point; I agree with it. My educational background is philosophy and South Asian languages (Sanskrit, Pail, Vedic, Avestan and such). As such, my own mindset is far more catholic than most (pun intended, I am also Catholic). I am always pressing for more resources from the Greek and Eastern churches because I get frustrated at the mindless assumption that Christian worldview=Western worldview.

However, I think that the original poster was asking how to research a theological idea that he had heard rather than his promoting belief for or against that stand. Therefore, I think that he stayed within the guidelines and felt it important that he not be left with the feeling he'd done something inappropriate. That was the complete purpose of my response. I suspect that it was my humor (English-law, Greek-logic) that made you think I disagreed with your comments on mindset. I apologize. They referred back to a discussion that many on the forums probably did not follow - I need to remember to think more by thread than by forum.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:02 PM

Thank you, Martha! It's so easy once you know!

"Onkelos, the second-century convert to Judaism, also converted the Torah into the common language of his day, Aramaic. He translates/interprets Gen. 2:7 as Adam becoming a speaking spirit rather than as the NJPS translation has it, a living being. Once Cain and Abel renounced their commitment to dialogue, to speaking with one another, they abdicated from what distinguished them from other beasts—their ability to communicate—and, thus, fell under the law of the jungle.

This fascinates me.  When I ask our children how people are different from animals, they usually say:  they can speak.  Previously I've always "corrected" them and explained it's because we can communicate with God.  Now I need to rethink that.  Thank you, Logos!

Posts 116
Chris Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:32 PM

nicky crane:
Previously I've always "corrected" them and explained it's because we can communicate with God.  Now I need to rethink that.  Thank you, Logos!

I too was very glad to see the quote MJ posted. It was thought provoking. I started to comment on it yesterday, but thought better of it. Now I feel I must.

Rethinking our position is healthy. I was happy that Onkelos used the word Spirit. It helps to differentiate man from beast. My point is that I see the ability to discern and choose, of more import than to speak. ( In fact we are cautioned to bridle our tongue.) The communication you mention is central. The fact that He created us with that ability is amazing. The fact that He chooses that communication with us is AWESOME. But it does not require speech.  Bottom line ...I see speaking as a symptom of an enhanced thought process, rather than the end result of it. One more bottom line, and I'll climb down off my stump. We are told that God IS Spirit. It would follow that the breath that He breathes is also Spirit. He doesn't require oxygen.

I am not as good as some others at disguising my stump preaching as software instruction. I will work on that.Big Smile

Posts 5127
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 10:21 PM

Milford Charles Murray:

Dear David Paul,

     You have posted enough to know that it is offensive to the members of this Logos Community, and against the Logos Forum Guidelines to post this kind of theological drivel.  You seem to want to deliberately upset many humble, trusting believing Brothers and Sisters.

        You know better or at least should know better.  What is your motive?  What are you trying to prove by this "Shock" posting.  I am not one of the so-called Logos MVP "star" dear brothers and sisters, so I do not have the authority to officially rebuke you and ask you to desist.  But!  I do find this post and your attitude quite offensive. 

LOL, I'm sorry you felt like this was a "shock" posting, MC. There are about a dozen Bible quotes in my post which I didn't "quote", I just figured most Logos users would catch them. My comments about nephesh are rather tepid and accord with most lexicons. Maybe you are put off by Ps.6:5? If you would like to explain just what you mean by "drivel", you may email me: mindfruit AT live_com. The underscore is a dot...just trying to shake the spambots.

As Reagan said, "Trust but VERIFY."

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 5127
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 10:26 PM

Nathan Barnes:

David Paul:
Your conclusions are correct. Humans do not have an immortal human soul. Nothing in scripture indicates they do...that is primarily a Greek infusion from the so-called Early Church Fathers.

David,

Thank you so much for your post, it is refreshing!  I get so tired of this "greek mindset" drivel that infuses every aspect of mainstream theological thinking!  I seriously do not understand why people take offense to thought and conjecture!  A little drash is good for the breath of life!  SERIOUSLY!  I think you make the whole point of biblical word study...!  You MUST consider contextual mindset (ie Hebraic), you cannot just look at all of your beautiful resources, use your greek mindset and come to a nifty, and hasty conclusion!  Oh BTW David did not start this "Theological" debate.... Graham did...  Resources are good, but mindset is better, thanks David.

Nick,

Yes to the Hebraic mindset! Yes to drash!

And while I'm Yes ... Yes to sod! Sod is the foundation of all knowledge!   [Let the reader understand.]

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 10:32 PM

David Paul:

Milford Charles Murray:

Dear David Paul,

     You have posted enough to know that it is offensive to the members of this Logos Community, and against the Logos Forum Guidelines to post this kind of theological drivel.  You seem to want to deliberately upset many humble, trusting believing Brothers and Sisters.

        You know better or at least should know better.  What is your motive?  What are you trying to prove by this "Shock" posting.  I am not one of the so-called Logos MVP "star" dear brothers and sisters, so I do not have the authority to officially rebuke you and ask you to desist.  But!  I do find this post and your attitude quite offensive. 

 

LOL, I'm sorry you felt like this was a "shock" posting, MC. There are about a dozen Bible quotes in my post which I didn't "quote", I just figured most Logos users would catch them. My comments about nephesh are rather tepid and accord with most lexicons. Maybe you are put off by Ps.6:5? If you would like to explain just what you mean by "drivel", you may email me: mindfruit AT live_com. The underscore is a dot...just trying to shake the spambots.

As Reagan said, "Trust but VERIFY."

Peace and Joy in the Lord to you, David!  *smile*

         Am pleased to hear from you and will respond in a positive and coherent fashion later today or early Sunday.  Blessing!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 19139
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 13 2010 5:17 PM

nicky crane:

Rosie, ... it took me a long time to realise that your photo showed a dog sitting on your shoulder - at first I thought it was either a zoom lens or a telescope!

Ha! Nicky, that is my camera, not my dog. Smile Your comment reminds me of the time my grandmother saw a photo of me almost fully submerged in a lake, holding my labrador retriever puppy on my shoulder, and she said "Oh, what a cute picture of Cricket; but what's that rock she's sitting on?"

EDIT:

JimT:

...maybe Rosie just helps when she likes ...

I help when I'm home, and am not asleep or sick in bed, and don't t have something else more important to do, and am not getting tired of it. As long as you all make it fun and not a bore or a chore, I keep coming back for more. But I also believe in taking a technology sabbath every once in a while to keep things in perspective, so I might go silent for unexplained periods of time. It might be that I'm just trying to get a handle on my Logos forum addiction.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 13 2010 9:09 PM

Rosie Perera:
and don't t have something else more important to do,

I figured you might be busy going to
Steve Runge's Greek Discourse Workshop June 7~8th, 
National Camp Logos June 10~11th, &
Camp Logos Alaskan Cruise June 12~19th.

Who knows? Maybe you did and you are so addicted to the forums you are using satellite uplink to answer forum questions from the inside passage to Alaska.  

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