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This post has 33 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 1015
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jun 17 2019 8:25 AM

Can anyone tell me if it’s reliable and pleasant enough to listen to logos books via text to speech/ voice ov er or similar on android? I’m thinking of getting an android phone. My iphones battery just isn’t good enough so im thinking of a moto g7 power. 

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 416
George | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 17 2019 10:14 AM

John Goodman:

Can anyone tell me if it’s reliable and pleasant enough to listen to logos books via text to speech/ voice ov er or similar on android? I’m thinking of getting an android phone. My iphones battery just isn’t good enough so im thinking of a moto g7 power. 

If there is a way in the Android app to do that, I haven't found it yet. I've read about something like that being available on Amazon Fire and IOS devices but even that is not from within the Logos app but rather from the operating system.

I hope I'm wrong.

Posts 337
Andrew Biddinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 17 2019 11:44 AM

John Goodman:

Can anyone tell me if it’s reliable and pleasant enough to listen to logos books via text to speech/ voice ov er or similar on android? I’m thinking of getting an android phone. My iphones battery just isn’t good enough so im thinking of a moto g7 power. 

So, the answer is that it is not yet completed on Andriod devices: https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/suggestions/3671914-enable-read-aloud-or-text-to-speech-like-in-the-de But, I WOULD LOOOOVE LOVE LOVE to see this happen. Definitely on my top 5 request list.

However, I need to test some more. But, was getting it to somewhat work on my andriod phone in the web app. https://app.logos.com/ So, we can hope that that might work......

Posts 155
Sakarias Ingolfsson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 15 2019 1:43 AM

The UserVoice petition was last updated back in 2014, which is half a decade ago at the time of writing this reply. Concluding from this silence, I think it is safe to assume that nothing more is going to happen anytime soon. 

So a more relevant question is whether there are any workarounds.

I have been unsuccessful in getting the system TTS to work with Logos. It reads GUI elements and the page number, but that is all. I have not tried any third party screen readers, but I suspect they will fail as well. 

A different approach might be to export book sections from the desktop app, and make the screen reader use the resulting document. I have not tried this yet, but I might. I do not know what the export limit is, but I have sometimes printed out entire chapters in order to read them from paper. It might be worth the attempt. Also, perhaps one can find a screen reader that can bee tweaked to read bible references correctly.

Posts 27813
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 15 2019 4:17 AM

John Goodman:
My iphones battery just isn’t good enough

Which specific iPhone? Did you get a new one already?

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 1015
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 15 2019 5:44 AM

I've gone for a moto one vision... coping without read aloud on my phone for now. But I miss it. Reading other posts, I think faithlife kind of regrets the existence of the feature and feel it prevents sales of audiobooks. Personally I don't understand this, I spend a lot on audiobooks but they don't have much of a selection so I go elsewhere. For me this is an accessibility feature and it is a huge disappointment that faithlife are not willing to make it happen. Particularly given the number of niche texts that would become available to people who struggle with vision, dyslexia and other problems. None of which will ever be recorded as audiobooks.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 529
Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 16 2019 12:40 AM

John Goodman:

...this is an accessibility feature and it is a huge disappointment that faithlife are not willing to make it happen. Particularly given the number of niche texts that would become available to people who struggle with vision, dyslexia and other problems. None of which will ever be recorded as audiobooks.

I don't know FaithLife's reasons for not yet having implemented Android text to speech (technical challenges? cost? legal issues?) but I agree that it would be great to have it. It would be wonderful to listen to my Logos books while out driving or walking or weeding the garden.

Your points, John, about accessibility for the visually impaired and making available texts not rendered as audio books are compelling.

I've added my 3 votes and hopefully other forum users who see this thread will consider adding theirs.

https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/suggestions/3671914-enable-read-aloud-or-text-to-speech-like-in-the-de 

Posts 38
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 16 2019 3:44 AM

John Goodman:
Reading other posts, I think faithlife kind of regrets the existence of the feature and feel it prevents sales of audiobooks.

Please share the "other posts" you've read and explain your reasoning. I've never read any posts that imply what you've said.

John Goodman:
For me this is an accessibility feature and it is a huge disappointment that faithlife are not willing to make it happen.

How do you know that "faithlife are not willing to make it happen"

Faithlife responded to you regarding this issue many years ago: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/41565/528418.aspx#528418 . Nothing has changed since then.

Posts 1015
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 17 2019 2:49 PM

T-Bone:
Please share the "other posts" you've read and explain your reasoning. I've never read any posts that imply what you've said.

I don't have time to search the forums for you - the summary of what faithlife has said as I understand it is:

Read aloud on ios was not intentional but a nice benefit of ios design. They actually removed it at one point and it was only through asking on this forum that it was reinstated.

It is seen as a competitor to being able to sell audio books.

They have not stated any intention to implement it on Android.

The explanation on the thread you mentioned is a bit daft. The android speech api is very simple... they could easily do this if they want to.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1724
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 17 2019 5:26 PM

John Goodman:
The explanation on the thread you mentioned is a bit daft.

Indeed. It was several years ago, but I still remember it for its epic silliness.

No longer actively posting. Please remind T-Bone to take his meds.

Posts 38
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 17 2019 8:04 PM

John Goodman:
I don't have time to search the forums for you - the summary of what faithlife has said as I understand it is:

I didn't ask you to search the forums for me; I already know such posts don't exist and that your understanding is false. I'm not trying to be negative but am just being truthful.

John Goodman:
Read aloud on ios was not intentional but a nice benefit of ios design.

True. 

John Goodman:
They actually removed it at one point and it was only through asking on this forum that it was reinstated.

This is false. VoiceOver support was unintentionally dropped (not intentionally removed) as a result of an updated display implementation and that bug was fixed.

John Goodman:
It is seen as a competitor to being able to sell audio books.

Again, I've seen no proof that Faithlife has stated this and you've offered none.

John Goodman:
They have not stated any intention to implement it on Android.

True.

John Goodman:
The explanation on the thread you mentioned is a bit daft. The android speech api is very simple... they could easily do this if they want to.


Are you another armchair developer? Faithlife is hiring: https://faithlife.com/jobs/AndroidSoftwareDeveloper . 

Basically you seem to be implying that Faithlife developers either lied to you in that thread or are just plain stupid. I expect you know nothing about the Android implementation of the Faithlife Mobile apps or how difficult it may be to implement android.speech.tts into the multiple coding languages that comprise different parts of the Android Mobile app.

Posts 821
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 17 2019 8:27 PM

John, I know you just purchased an Android phone, but iOS has a system-wide speak screen function as an accessibility feature. I use it almost every day to read Logos resources when I work out at the gym. They have voices you can download in many English dialects. If you are within your return window and would consider an iPhone, it could do what you want.

Posts 38
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 12:31 AM

Robert M. Warren:

John Goodman:
The explanation on the thread you mentioned is a bit daft.

Indeed. It was several years ago, but I still remember it for its epic silliness.

Those who know nothing about the underlying structure of the Faithlife Android Mobile apps somehow have the most arrogant confidence in their absolute ignorance. Reminds me of a manager I once had.

Years ago I remember reading your posts about Faithlife purposely programming a "kill-switch" (your words) to prevent customers from installing old unsupported versions of the Faithlife Android Mobile apps. "... the fix is in because a programmed kill-switch will sabotage the installation."

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/154881/939383.aspx#939383
 
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/156266/943388.aspx#943388 

Then, you extended your "kill-switch" conspiracy theory to the iOS apps:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/165434/969484.aspx#969484 

There never was a programmed kill-switch to sabotage any installation - it's simply called "dropping support". 

Robert, why doesn't Microsoft support Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows XP, or Windows 7?  Is that a Microsoft "Kill-Switch"? Or, could it be that it's a money losing proposition.?

Why doesn't Samsung support Android 4.4, 5.0, 5.1, 6.0, 7.0, etc? A Samsung "Kill-Switch"? Or, could it be that not enough customers are using those Android versions to make it profitable to support them?

Faithlife's standard is to drop support for platforms that lose money for the company. Every company wants to stay in business. The first mandate of any business is to stay in business. If (for example) supporting a platform used by 2% of customers ends up costing 6% of the support budget, that is bad for business. This is remedial economics and should be understood by anyone who budgets their money.

Faithlife doesn't have a money tree that Jesus renews every day with $100 dollar bills like manna from heaven, just in case you didn't know that already. It seems really daft of me to have to mention that but it's no less silly than your assumption that Faithlife could easily implement text to speech in the Faithlife Android mobile apps.

Or, maybe you think Faithlife already solved the Android Mobile app text-to-speech issue years ago but is purposely holding it back to punish customers. John might agree with that false premise.

As I mentioned to John, Faithlife is hiring and I recommend you sign up for an interview. Do it up, get hired and fix all the things that Faithlife is too dumb to fix!

Good luck.

Posts 1724
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 3:17 AM

Whoa! Looks like somebody's got a bad case of the Moondays! You're clearly emotionally invested somehow, so keep the cheese; just let me out of the trap. If I'm wrong, don't send it in to Guinness, just forgive me or sue me. I am however, flattered you've kept a dossier on me.

No longer actively posting. Please remind T-Bone to take his meds.

Posts 38
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 4:01 AM

Robert M. Warren:

Whoa! Looks like somebody's got a bad case of the Moondays! You're clearly emotionally invested somehow, so keep the cheese; just let me out of the trap. If I'm wrong, don't send it in to Guinness, just forgive me or sue me. I am however, flattered you've kept a dossier on me.



Your Ad hominem is showing. ;)

I expected you weren't able to respond with facts. Have a nice day.!

Posts 1015
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 7:17 AM

T-Bone a sock puppet?! 15 posts and you've been around for years eh.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 3152
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 9:27 AM

Friendly reminder:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

[...]

3. Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.

[...]

6. Please help others follow these guidelines. If the problems continue after you’ve given a gentle reminder of these expectations, please click “Report Abuse” under “More” or send an email to forums@logos.com.

Thank you for your cooperation. Enjoy discussing and learning about Logos Bible Software.

(Original here.)

Posts 1724
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 2:43 PM

T-Bone:

Your Ad hominem is showing. ;)

I expected you weren't able to respond with facts. Have a nice day.!

For the record, I don't even like hominy, you can ask my wife.

What I found 'silly' about the post linked above is the stated difficulty with extracting surface text. While I certainly don't know how to do it, someone at FL certainly does, since it appears on the Android screen and Read Aloud reads aloud the surface text on Desktop. It appears that both platforms use the same resource file (same name, apparently the same file size).

Regarding the 'kill-switch': 

Daniel Di Bartolo:
you will still be able to use Logos. However, it's unsupported, which means that if you delete it off of your device, you won't be able to get it back.

'You won't be able to get it back' either means a guy named Guido will come to your door and stop the re-installation on the reset phone, or there is some online mechanism that rejects the APK or prevents log in to the reinstalled app. If you don't like the term 'kill-switch', you can call it a kumquat; it is what it is.

No longer actively posting. Please remind T-Bone to take his meds.

Posts 3152
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 6:26 PM

Robert M. Warren:

Daniel Di Bartolo:
you will still be able to use Logos. However, it's unsupported, which means that if you delete it off of your device, you won't be able to get it back.

'You won't be able to get it back' either means a guy named Guido will come to your door and stop the re-installation on the reset phone, or there is some online mechanism that rejects the APK or prevents log in to the reinstalled app.

Or that the average customer who knows of no other methods of downloading apps than by getting them from the default app store won't be able to get that version of the app back because it will no longer be possible to download it from the app store.

Posts 38
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 19 2019 10:19 PM

Robert M. Warren:
What I found 'silly' about the post linked above is the stated difficulty with extracting surface text. While I certainly don't know how to do it, someone at FL certainly does, since it appears on the Android screen and Read Aloud reads aloud the surface text on Desktop. It appears that both platforms use the same resource file (same name, apparently the same file size).

Okay, so you've decided Faithlife is lying to you about Text to Speech on Android since "someone at FL certainly does [know how to do it].?" Interesting. Could it be that the Windows, macOS, Android and iOS implementations are all radically different? Could it be that you don't have enough information to determine a valid conclusion?

Robert M. Warren:
'You won't be able to get it back' either means a guy named Guido will come to your door and stop the re-installation on the reset phone, or there is some online mechanism that rejects the APK or prevents log in to the reinstalled app.

This is absolutely false! There are multiple ways to "get it back" - it's just that you won't be able to install old unsupported versions from the Google Play Store. (The Apple Store allows one to do this but Google Play doesn't.)

Recommendations:

1. Before January 1, 2020 install the latest supported app(s) and version(s) and save the APK's somewhere. If you ever need to perform a factory reset on your device you can sideload those APK's and they will run just as before.

Faithlife *will not* prevent you from installing, signing in or running the apps unless there is some unforeseen circumstance (like the TLS 1.2 security issue that happened over the last year that affected Android and Windows but not iOS).

2. You can download and install older Faithlife Mobile app APK's from any of the many third-party APK stores.

3. You can call Faithlife Customer support and they may be able to work with on a case-by-case basis to "get back" older unsupported versions of the Android Mobile app APK's.

Robert M. Warren:
If you don't like the term 'kill-switch', you can call it a kumquat; it is what it is.

I'm sure we can agree that words and definitions matter, otherwise why would we bother using Logos Bible Software?

The standard definition of "kill switch" when related to software means (for example) that on January 1, 2020 Faithlife will permanently disable any currently installed Faithlife Mobile apps on Android 5.1 (or below) from running, starting, etc. In other words those apps will be inoperable even if you install them again (from a backup or another store) because Faithlife will remotely kill them like an emergency shutoff switch at the gas station. Faithlife doesn't do that, has never done that and never will do that.

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