The future of Logos and Faithlife: Help us make the right decisions!

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This post has 145 Replies | 17 Followers

Posts 1948
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 4:05 AM

Armin:
My main criticism of Logos is its usability. The search functionality has significantly improved but if I need to find something quickly, I still use Google to search the Internet. Then when I gathered more information, I go back to Logos. Google just seems to know what I am looking for by just typing in a few words.

Yes, I do the same

Posts 2408
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 6:05 AM

Armin:
If I need to find something quickly, I still use Google to search the Internet. Then when I gathered more information, I go back to Logos. Google just seems to know what I am looking for by just typing in a few words.

Maybe some of that difference is in the budgets of the two companies mentioned??  [Or maybe in the number of and the pay of the developers involved??]]   [[How many lines of code in Google and how many lines of code in Logos / Verbum??]]  [[The power of the computers running those programs??]]  

If you really want a fast Logos get Faithlife to produce a version that runs on a Quantum Computer.  [[If you can afford one]] 

Posts 78
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 7:19 AM

David Ames:
 
Armin:
If I need to find something quickly, I still use Google to search the Internet. Then when I gathered more information, I go back to Logos. Google just seems to know what I am looking for by just typing in a few words.

Maybe some of that difference is in the budgets of the two companies mentioned?? 

Perhaps Logos could have a "WEB" search button in the inline search and other search tools. In the settings you can choose your preferred engine (e.g. Bing, Google, Yahoo, etc). Perhaps a split pane that opens if the web button is chosen. One search, searching both Logos, and the internet -- if desired.

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 8:51 AM

David Ames:
Maybe some of that difference is in the budgets of the two companies mentioned?? 

The computation problem is fairly simple; FL has the expertise. The issue is how much user data is available? And how variable is it?  Logos appears to be a limited-number-of-heavy-users, and a lot of light-users. That scenario is hard to build data associations that meet a user's expectation at each usage point. 

A really fascinating parallel is the competition in auto-driving cars ... T-company's servers are constantly watching the human drivers, learning the patterns, and avoiding Ladar demands. 


Posts 119
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 1:33 PM

Scott David:

Perhaps Logos could have a "WEB" search button in the inline search and other search tools. In the settings you can choose your preferred engine (e.g. Bing, Google, Yahoo, etc). Perhaps a split pane that opens if the web button is chosen. One search, searching both Logos, and the internet -- if desired.

I like that idea... maybe it could be one of the guides that could be added to the Topic, Passage & Sermon Starter Guides

Posts 119
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 1:33 PM

Scott David:

Perhaps Logos could have a "WEB" search button in the inline search and other search tools. In the settings you can choose your preferred engine (e.g. Bing, Google, Yahoo, etc). Perhaps a split pane that opens if the web button is chosen. One search, searching both Logos, and the internet -- if desired.

I like that idea... maybe it could be one of the guides that could be added to the Topic, Passage & Sermon Starter Guides

Posts 2408
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 3:16 PM

Scott David:

Perhaps Logos could have a "WEB" search button in the inline search and other search tools. In the settings you can choose your preferred engine (e.g. Bing, Google, Yahoo, etc). Perhaps a split pane that opens if the web button is chosen. One search, searching both Logos, and the internet -- if desired.

That might work: Reformat the Logos query and submit it to 'preferred engine'.  Would Logos have to pay 'preferred engine' a royalty? 

Posts 6413
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 5:08 PM

WORDsearch is making an announcement on Monday.  Maybe they just bought Logos and everything we own in WORDsearch will be transferred over to Logos and a new era will begin hahaha

Posts 78
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 5:21 PM

David Ames:

Scott David:

Perhaps Logos could have a "WEB" search button in the inline search and other search tools. In the settings you can choose your preferred engine (e.g. Bing, Google, Yahoo, etc). Perhaps a split pane that opens if the web button is chosen. One search, searching both Logos, and the internet -- if desired.

That might work: Reformat the Logos query and submit it to 'preferred engine'.  Would Logos have to pay 'preferred engine' a royalty? 

Usually, any kind of usage of Google does not cost (they want folks to use their engine). I know that there are endless plugins to use Google in powerful ways on a website (e.g. have clients search your business site, or even create on-demand access to knowledge, products, etc) -- this is always free. However, embedding it within software might be a different animal.

Posts 78
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2019 5:23 PM

MWW:

Scott David:

Perhaps Logos could have a "WEB" search button in the inline search and other search tools. In the settings you can choose your preferred engine (e.g. Bing, Google, Yahoo, etc). Perhaps a split pane that opens if the web button is chosen. One search, searching both Logos, and the internet -- if desired.

I like that idea... maybe it could be one of the guides that could be added to the Topic, Passage & Sermon Starter Guides

Oh, right. That's a simple and practical idea. Perhaps this conversation should be someplace else? Some area of the forum for recommendations?

Posts 14
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2019 10:25 AM

Unfortunately this is true for ALL Bible software programs. I myself search also often first with Startpage.com and then I go to the Bible software program. 

Greetings

Fabian

Posts 590
Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2019 11:42 AM

DAL:

WORDsearch is making an announcement on Monday.  Maybe they just bought Logos and everything we own in WORDsearch will be transferred over to Logos and a new era will begin hahaha

Big Smile

Posts 142
James Macleod | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2019 10:21 PM

Mark:

Armin:
My main criticism of Logos is its usability. The search functionality has significantly improved but if I need to find something quickly, I still use Google to search the Internet. Then when I gathered more information, I go back to Logos. Google just seems to know what I am looking for by just typing in a few words.

Yes, I do the same

I do this as well, but not because there is anything wrong with the Logos search. I find the Logos search to be powerful, quick, and easy to use. Right-clicking on a word and doing a morph search from the popup menu is friendly and fast. The search tab is powerful and straightforward to use. The Bible Word Study tool is also useful. The "corresponding words" functionality is beneficial when studying a passage.

Posts 176
Al Het | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 11:01 AM

Cynthia in Florida:
P.S.  Al Het:  GREAT POST!

Thanks, Cynthia.  I appreciate hearing back that my comments made some sense.  By the end of writing them, I wasn't sure if I was being clear at all. 

Posts 10051
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 11:45 AM

DAL:

WORDsearch is making an announcement on Monday.  Maybe they just bought Logos and everything we own in WORDsearch will be transferred over to Logos and a new era will begin hahaha

Seems they just stole some of the ideas around Faithlife Connect ("perk"). Would have been better if Lifeway sold that thing to Logos and everything we own in WordSearch would be transferred to Logos - and everything available in the WS store to the Logos store - and a new era will begin .... maybe they could have left some brick and mortar stores open in this case.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 13360
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 12:21 PM

NB.Mick:
Seems they just stole some of the ideas around Faithlife Connect ("perk").

To be fair, they're offering 10% off all purchases if you spend $100 a year as well as free books. That's much more generous that Logos is offering (Logos is 2%).

At the same time, it does suggest that people need to be incentivized to spend $100/year. That's a very low number - and I'd be worried about that if I was a WORDsearch customer.

Posts 440
Liam & Abi Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 3:56 AM

Mark Barnes:

At the same time, it does suggest that people need to be incentivized to spend $100/year. That's a very low number - and I'd be worried about that if I was a WORDsearch customer.

Yes, indeed Mark. I probably spend over $100/year on the +1 & +2's which come with the Logos, FL eBooks, and Verebum FBOTM offers. I'd say that even the most causal Logos book buyer would have to work very hard not to spend $100/year!

Check out my blog 'For Fathers'

Posts 354
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 13 2019 3:58 AM

Bob Pritchett:

We’ve been building Logos Bible Software since 1991. It’s the heart of everything we do, and of accomplishing our mission:

We use technology to equip the Church to grow in the light of the Bible.

Logos is the premiere tool for people who are serious about Bible study. It’s heavily used by pastors, scholars, seminary students, and lay people.

But people who are serious about Bible study -- and want to use a powerful, dedicated tool for study -- are a small percentage of most churches. We want to serve everyone in the church, and we know that many people ‘grow in the light of the Bible’ through classes, small groups, video, and free content on the web.... 



Bob,

I have been on both sides of the fence with you. I've been one of your biggest and harshest critics, and I have supported you. Mostly a harsh critic, however. 

I have spent more money on my "small" library than I really can afford. 
Unfortunately, I have felt like every penny spent has been wasted. My hostility toward the company, from 2010, until Logos 7, and really Logos 8 and it's complicated system has all but ruined my attitude toward Bible study. The exact opposite of why I purchased L3 to begin with, almost a decade ago. 

Sadly, to actually learn how to use it, I have to gain a desire to use it. Something that despite my on again off again spurts of hope, dwindle as I realize the task of actually using this software as I used former easier software titles. 
On the other hand, thanks to Logos Now, Logos Connect, what ever name the subscription is going by this week, I sometimes get an inkling of excitement to finish my studies, particularly Greek and Hebrew (I need two years of both to finally graduate) only to get bogged down in despair. 

One thing I have come to think i have realize is, contrary to my initial reaction to you, personally, I do now believe you do desire to do the right thing with Logos. I see many things that I cannot explain. Sales that "glitch" far too frequently; as one example. But, I see you attempt to fix that as well. I cannot ask more than that from anyone. And, pray that these really are glitches. 

So, another thing that has changed my mind about your integrity and purpose, is that, as you say in this post, You want to be transparent in how Logos/Faithlife is run. That is an incredible thing to do. It puts you in a very vulnerable place. Esp. when you get bombarded by critics, like myself, who seem to question your every move, and it's motivation. I remind myself of the Democrats who seek to "find something ANYTHING on Trump" (Oh boy. I did go there. Oops). Or Republicans who did the same on Clinton and Obama (yep, went there too). 

Since you opened this discussion, and perhaps it's to sell another product; I would like to offer my one (maybe few) suggestion(s). 
I am floored by the two major trainers and how much they make by peddling their "Logos Training:" I will applaud Logos for the many training videos offered for free, over the past couple years. Unfortunately for me, however, I almost find it a little too late. But, nevertheless, THANK YOU for the helps. 
Logos 8 is a HUGE step in the right direction: Faster and easier to use than previous editions. I can actually find passages faster on Logos than Googling them (yeah; for 7-8 years, I Googled the passages, as opposed to using this expensive Bible software, because it was faster and easier! 
But, I pray Google 9 and forward go faster and is easier to use than even 8. 

A second area that is extremely frustrating to me is the constant updates. I hate mentioning this, because, without fail, despite this same disclaimer, someone will always mention how we can change the update settings. That is beside the point. And, unfortunately, in today's world, updates are necessary on a per second basis. Security flaws as well as software improvements/corrections. I get it. But, at the same time, I turn on my computer, and Windows has to update. Anti-virus software has to update. Hardware has to update. Software has to update. And Logos has to update. I have begun to think that we spend 90% of our time updating everything so we can use our computers, except we need to update again. 

Sadly, I have no answers. Just wishes. I wish I could turn on my computer and open my Bible and in 20-30 seconds have my Bible opened, and it is so easy to use, I dont feel like I am computer illiterate to read my Bible. Perhaps a continuing improvement on speed and ease of use will help. Sadly there's not much that can be done to regain my desire (that i am aware of) to get back to the Bible Study I once loved. That will take God to move me back. 

Thank you for being open to us. 
Tim
Aka Batman



Posts 328
Andrew Biddinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 13 2019 5:40 AM

Batman:

 Sadly there's not much that can be done to regain my desire (that i am aware of) to get back to the Bible Study I once loved. That will take God to move me back.

I need Jesus every day. Praying that he renews your heart to love him.

Taste and see that the Lord is good; blessed is the one who takes refuge in him.” (Psalm 34:8, NIV)

Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.” (1 Peter 2:2–3, NIV)

Posts 6413
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 13 2019 7:06 AM

Andrew Biddinger:

Batman:

 Sadly there's not much that can be done to regain my desire (that i am aware of) to get back to the Bible Study I once loved. That will take God to move me back.

I need Jesus every day. Praying that he renews your heart to love him.

Taste and see that the Lord is good; blessed is the one who takes refuge in him.” (Psalm 34:8, NIV)

Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.” (1 Peter 2:2–3, NIV)

Actually, God has already given you the knowledge to realize you can’t be in your current state.  It’s your choice to go back to your Father just like it was the prodigal son’s choice to come to his senses.

You cannot expect God to be behind you begging you to come back or to convince you to come back.  To expect a miracle or God to come and fetch you is to believe the devil’s lies.

Praying and hoping you repent and turn back to God!

DAL

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