Search Examples for Search Query Builder

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 25 2019 1:49 PM

We're doing some product design work on a possible search query builder, and we're looking for lots of real world examples that you'd want a search query builder to make easy to build and find.

Is there something you'd like to be able to find in Logos but aren't sure how to find it—or would just like to make finding it a lot easier?

Please share you real-world examples (and ideally why you're trying to find what you're looking for). If there's already a discussion here on the forums or elsewhere, please link to it.

Thanks!

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 25 2019 1:55 PM

Here are a couple of recent examples that might benefit from a search query builder:

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 25 2019 2:08 PM

Thanks for asking, Phil

Some time ago I was preparing for a preaching series on the Trinity and wanted to explore actions one member of the Trinity took in relation to another. For example:

  • The Father loving the Son / Spirit
  • The Son loving the Father
  • The Father sending the Son / Spirit
  • The Son sending the Spirit

The Clause Search supports this well but being able to build the searches in a query builder would be helpful

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 25 2019 2:23 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

We're doing some product design work on a possible search query builder, and we're looking for lots of real world examples that you'd want a search query builder to make easy to build and find.

Is there something you'd like to be able to find in Logos but aren't sure how to find it—or would just like to make finding it a lot easier?

Please share you real-world examples (and ideally why you're trying to find what you're looking for). If there's already a discussion here on the forums or elsewhere, please link to it.

Super excited about this prospect. The Search feature of Logos is my most used feature. I use it devotionally, searching for scripture related to what the Lord has laid on my heart. Recently I was meditating on righteousness and I had a dickens of a time finding the scripture the Holy Spirit directed my attention to. I was finally able to find it by doing a proximity search on two of the terms I was able to recall and by searching in the likely source version for my scripture. 

You can see the result of my labor in my recent post here https://community.logos.com/forums/p/182251/1054242.aspx#1054242 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 650
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 25 2019 3:56 PM

I was trying to find all of the passages in Paul's letters that mentioned Christ giving himself/being given for us, or Christ dying for us. Not just him dying/giving/being given but where it mentions specifically dying "for us/you/me" (on behalf of, gk: υπερ). I had built two Morph queries for it and saved them but somehow the data in the morph queries is now missing when I reopen them. Angry Not sure what happened.

But I wondered as I was building the morph queries (my first time trying to use them) if there was an easier way to do this search. It took me forever to figure it out and lots of tweaking after running them repeatedly to get all the results I thought I should be getting. Of course now I can't remember what I did and the saved queries are blank. Angry

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 25 2019 4:20 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Is there something you'd like to be able to find in Logos but aren't sure how to find it—or would just like to make finding it a lot easier?

By far the biggest help you could give me would be to allow searching Biblical Entities by metadata - so we could do searches for all the speech made by women to Jesus, or all the times God appeared on a mountain, and so on.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 27 2019 9:58 AM

Here are some recent forum threads where people struggled to create a search:

There's also a long-standing bug that needs fixing when using INTERSECTS or WITHIN in conjunction with a proximity search: Reproducible Bug: Logos mangles a valid INTERSECTS search. Presumably a search builder wouldn't create a search the interpreter couldn't understand. So that would be a good test.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 27 2019 12:14 PM

One of the challenges for me is the syntax required for any somewhat complex search. When and where to use { } or [ ] or( ). It is obvious that the formulas were written by someone used to programming. Not exactly what you were asking for, but if you can simplify that it would go a long way.

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 27 2019 11:00 PM

John Fidel:
if you can simplify that it would go a long way.

+1 for simplified search syntax! I think this is as important as a query builder...

I would like the query builder to be able to find things that currently only possible in Syntax Search (if at all). For example:

  1. Arg1 follows Arg2 within 2 words and Arg1 & Arg2 are the same (any) Lemma, while optionally constraining either or both Arguments by part of speech. We'd, of course, need variable arguments for this.
  2. Arg1 is separated from Arg2 by "a certain phrase/lemma phrase."

Basically, I want to be able to easily find "structures" (only optionally constrained to verse boundaries). Two reasons for wanting this are 1. to verify/check scholarly claims about the purpose/effect of a particular structure and 2. (once verified) to create a visual filter to alert to this structure (particularly helpful in translation, but useful for any exegetical work).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 28 2019 6:21 AM

Reuben Helmuth:

  1. Arg1 follows Arg2 within 2 words and Arg1 & Arg2 are the same (any) Lemma, while optionally constraining either or both Arguments by part of speech. We'd, of course, need variable arguments for this.
  2. Arg1 is separated from Arg2 by "a certain phrase/lemma phrase."

Basically, I want to be able to easily find "structures" (only optionally constrained to verse boundaries).

I agree.

Using a slightly adapted Libronix syntax (where wildcard * was allowed):

1. * BEFORE 2 WORDS *; Lemma:#1 = Lemma:#2   i.e. first lemma = second lemma

That could be simplified --->  lemma:* BEFORE 2 WORDS lemma:*; #1 = #2

2.  justice WITHIN 0 PHRASE liberty    i.e. within the same phrase (not a grammatical phrase in Libronix)

A Query builder should be able to use a grammatical PHRASE, or CLAUSE

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 28 2019 7:15 AM

John Fidel:
One of the challenges for me is the syntax required for any somewhat complex search. When and where to use { } or [ ] or ( ). It is obvious that the formulas were written by someone used to programming.

A way to understand, where to use { } or just < >

  • use {Section datatype} if you know that it will return a section of text e.g. {Section <Event The Israelites cross the Red Sea>};
  • the following will return a word(s), or phrase, so don't require  {  }
    • <Person xxxxx>
    • <Place xxxxx>
    • <Thing xxxxx>
    • <Sense =~xxxxx>

 [ ] would be rarely required. You see them most when you type a term in Morph Search and click onto Bible/Basic Search e.g. ([field bible, content] wilderness) is the expansion of wilderness. The (  )  isn't required for such a simple term, so [field bible, content] wilderness would suffice (and it's the same as bible:wilderness). But wilderness  is OK in a Bible/Morph Search, where the result is restricted to bible text.

land OR wilderness AND the is ambiguous, as it is not clear which terms are being OR'ed. But (land OR wilderness) AND the will likely get the result you were after; as opposed to land OR (wilderness AND the).

Dave
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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 29 2019 6:37 AM

Hi Phil,

I've thought a lot about what the most important searches people need to learn to build are, which led eventually to the Advanced Search training videos, where I ran through those, trying to explain the logic behind them to offer a comprehensive overview of search on the platform. Always built off real life examples of what I or others I know actually have been interested in finding. 

I'll send you an email with the scripts from those videos. The videos were pretty comprehensive, so if the search builder is able to address all or almost all those searches, you should be pretty well off.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 29 2019 6:56 AM

Regarding my basic hopes for this tool....

As a general petition, what I would hope for on a most basic level from the Search Query builder is that it make inserting special commands for searches (such as the search extensions, etc.) as easy as possible. And that the options of what can be included within those search extensions also be easy to filter and select. One should be able to easily see all the different possible commands, and then once one selects a command, you should be able to see all the different options that can be inserted within that command. 

I understand that you might also have a goal be to add more apparently user-friendly "paradigm-based searches", and some work has been done on that already. While this can be helpful, in the long-term, I am convinced that if you begin by focusing on the basic building blocks of search, and making them as friendly and powerful as possible, that will allow you to easily build out, in a second moment, an extremely powerful and friendly question & answer search query builder. I'm not convinced doing it the other way around will work... and I fear doing so will actually be counter productive long term, as it will not really address the basic problem. 

Search is so vast and powerful in Logos and Verbum - it is easily the most powerful feature in the software. This power implies an almost infinite number of possibilities, and the search query needs to respect that flexibility, making it easier to use. Once it does so, then you can build on top of that quickly and easily paradigm-based searches.

Those are my thoughts on this, anyway. Looking forward to it! Ever since I started using the software (v4) I have considered this the most important and urgent need the software has, so I'm delighted to see you giving this some priority. 

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 29 2019 2:55 PM

Dave Hooton:

John Fidel:
One of the challenges for me is the syntax required for any somewhat complex search. When and where to use { } or [ ] or ( ). It is obvious that the formulas were written by someone used to programming.

A way to understand, where to use { } or just < >

  • use {Section datatype} if you know that it will return a section of text e.g. {Section <Event The Israelites cross the Red Sea>};
  • the following will return a word(s), or phrase, so don't require  {  }
    • <Person xxxxx>
    • <Place xxxxx>
    • <Thing xxxxx>
    • <Sense =~xxxxx>

 [ ] would be rarely required. You see them most when you type a term in Morph Search and click onto Bible/Basic Search e.g. ([field bible, content] wilderness) is the expansion of wilderness. The (  )  isn't required for such a simple term, so [field bible, content] wilderness would suffice (and it's the same as bible:wilderness). But wilderness  is OK in a Bible/Morph Search, where the result is restricted to bible text.

land OR wilderness AND the is ambiguous, as it is not clear which terms are being OR'ed. But (land OR wilderness) AND the will likely get the result you were after; as opposed to land OR (wilderness AND the).

Thanks Dave,

I have reviewed this but still can seem to get it right without looking it up. Maybe your computer background makes it easier.

I appreciate the summary.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 29 2019 4:37 PM

John Fidel:
I have reviewed this but still can seem to get it right without looking it up.

If you want to know what is available, and the query format, you can look up the documentation (type:manual, type:glossary). Or you can use the Context menu on some text that interests you e.g. as an example of an Event, or a Quote/Allusion. If you select what appears to be a simple Command, then you may be confronted with Declarative Sentence, Informative:Assertive Speech Acts and Obligative: Directive Speech Acts. The Search is easily constructed after making the appropriate selections, but what is appropriate?

I would hope that a Query Builder could resolve my dilemma i.e. it would present (and explain) the alternatives when I specify Quote or Command, and allow them to be combined. If I were to specify Allusion, Directive or Assertive, they should also be understood by the Builder.

Dave
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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 12:09 AM

Dave Hooton:
If you want to know what is available, and the query format, you can look up the documentation

Which illustrates why simplifying the syntax is important (needing to repeatedly look up the documentation!).

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2019 12:31 PM

Fr Devin Roza:
As a general petition, what I would hope for on a most basic level from the Search Query builder is that it make inserting special commands for searches (such as the search extensions, etc.) as easy as possible. And that the options of what can be included within those search extensions also be easy to filter and select. One should be able to easily see all the different possible commands, and then once one selects a command, you should be able to see all the different options that can be inserted within that command.

Totally agree. Term-building is where a lot of pain points are. 

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Chris Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2019 9:10 PM

Phil, one of my current desires is to see expanded capabilities of the corpora within which we can execute searches & visualize our results. I believe that you and I messaged about this in the Faithlife search group (apologies, can’t find a way to link the thread)–desiring to see expanded capabilities within corpora such as the Fathers, Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha, etc. I realize that this is more of a tangential response to the OP, but I wanted to proffer the comment in case it were to be seen as applicable or were able to gather any traction while FL is focusing on searching issues. 

More directly related, I have had some trouble searching for multiple Lemmas simultaneously and have not had much resolution with IT–maybe this is a feature that can be sured up and made a bit easier. 

I often use the Heading:_________ command to recall articles in bible dictionaries and the like that might help me introduce myself to a topic. This seems to bring better results than the Factbook or Topic Guide. Potentially this might be of interest re: your present line of inquiry. 

As always, thanks to you and your team for continued diligence in your efforts to improve Logos and its functionality. 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2019 10:44 PM

Chris Lane:
I have had some trouble searching for multiple Lemmas simultaneously and have not had much resolution with IT

You can't select multiple lemmas in a resource. If this is still an issue then address it in a new thread, providing more information/examples, etc.

Dave
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Chris Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 2 2019 6:20 AM

Though you can search for multiple lemmas, correct?

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