ANNOUNCEMENT: End of support for Windows 7, Windows 8.1 & MacOS 10.11–10.13

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This post has 49 Replies | 6 Followers

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 4 2019 6:01 PM

garymstevens:
So, I know that I am in the minority, but this message bothers me significantly

I understand why you are bothered but I also recognize that no software company can support all older OS for long ... it's like asking them to drag Greenland behind them. However, most communities have a source for free refurbished computers for students and fixed income people. https://pocketsense.com/computers-low-income-families-5015.html may be a place to start (I don't know where you live so I can't be more specific.) I would hope others in the forums could give you more specific referrals.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 4 2019 6:42 PM

I understand and empathize with these complaints. Earlier this century, I was stuck between computer upgrades for about 10 years. I had Libronix on my system during those years as the latest versions of Logos passed me by. I even wrote two theses with that, and oh, a faster system and Logos 4+ would have made those much easier.

Everyone's situation is different, but I think many concerned users will be able to function with their current version of Logos for a long time, even if they aren't able to update anymore--and let's face it, if you can't afford to upgrade your computer, you likely can't afford much in the way of a base package when the newest version of Logos rolls out. But there's another option I don't think I've seen mentioned in this thread yet--the Logos web app at https://app.logos.com/ . It may not do everything the desktop does, but I would think it would support new books you buy even if, for some reason, you become unable to download them to your desktop program.

Finally, to speak a little more bluntly and less charitably, if you're having difficulties affording computers, you really don't have much business sticking with Macs. Comparable Windows systems are available at much lower prices. Most of my colleagues use Macs, and I see them go through constant headaches with them. So, that's something to consider as well.

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Paul L. White | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 4 2019 8:57 PM

I want to thank all who responded to me, and explained so carefully the difference between old-type resources, and those that need the software updates to function.  Much appreciated.

I think it would help many users to understand this event better if we knew what it is that Windows 10 will allow the new Logos versions to do that Windows 7 cannot allow?  There must be some advantage to Windows 10 besides just "keeping up with Microsoft."

Thanks a million!

Paul

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2019 2:19 AM

Paul L. White:
I think it would help many users to understand this event better if we knew what it is that Windows 10 will allow the new Logos versions to do that Windows 7 cannot allow?  There must be some advantage to Windows 10 besides just "keeping up with Microsoft."

All software is built on an API provided by the Operating System and by other frameworks. These APIs and frameworks mean you don't have create everything from scratch, but you can utilise common functions much more easily. For example, a new version of an API or framework may make it much simpler to add a new feature to your application. Instead of adding thousands of lines of code to add the new feature, you can piggy-back on the framework's functions and do it in (perhaps) a few dozen lines of code.

The main framework Logos uses on Windows is .NET, which is provided for Microsoft. The current version of .NET runs happily on Windows 7 SP1, which is one of the reasons why Logos currently requires SP1 to be installed on Windows 7. Therefore it's unlikely that Logos will suddenly stop working on a Windows 7 SP1 machine, even after the end of support. However, IF Microsoft bring out a new version of .NET that requires Windows 10 AND Faithlife switch to that new version THEN new versions of Logos would not work on Windows 7, AT THAT POINT.

The crucial part of the announcement is this:

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
While we don't anticipate any immediate problems using Logos on Windows 7, it will not be a priority to maintain backward compatibility with an operating system that is no longer supported by its provider.

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Logos 8 will continue to receive updates, but we will no longer test the application on these operating systems, nor deliver bug fixes that exclusively affect them.

Faithlife are NOT saying that Logos 8 will no longer run on Windows 7. There are saying two things:

  1. They can no longer guarantee that Logos 8 will run on Windows 7 for the future, because they're not going to test the app on Windows 7, and if there are bugs in Windows 7 they are not going to work around those bugs. It's entirely possible that future versions of Logos 8 will continue to work on Logos 7 – but equally, they may not.
  2. If Microsoft release a new version of .NET that doesn't work on Windows 7, then they may well switch to that version at that point.

(The 32-bit Windows 10 announcement is likely to be different. In that case, I would expect future versions of Logos 8 to simply not install on 32-bit Windows 10.)

In addition, there are big changes coming to .NET that it's very possible Faithlife will want to take advantage of. Keeping their development tools current is a very sensible way of ensuring they can make that transition smoothly when it's necessary.

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Bob Bacle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2019 6:47 AM

It is unfortunate that you have decided not to continue to support Win7 & Win8.1, because when I installed Win10 and updated to the their latest version, a lot of my programs stopped working, and I could no longer print to my printer, even though I tried reinstalling the drivers.

So I installed a version of "Stop Updates" on my Win10 laptop to keep the OS from automatically updating.
That is what I hate about Win10 - the automatic updates without anyway to opt out of them, plus the telemetry they have put into Win10.

I only use Win10 on my laptop because that is what came with it, but I really don't care for it, because it looks like an old-fashioned OS and doesn't have the finished look like XP did or Win7.

I keep it off the internet as much as possible unless I need an image or something from Google images for my powerpoints that I create for each Sunday.

That said, I understand your thinking in wanting to be able to use the latest APIs from MS, but if it were me and I were a programmer, I would NOT want to depend on anything from MS in order to make my programs work.

Posts 158
Paul L. White | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2019 7:09 AM

Thank you, Mark Barnes!

And for those who may not know what API stands for, here's what Google provides:

An application program interface (API) is a set of routines, protocols, and tools for building software applications. Basically, an API specifies how software components should interact. Additionally, APIs are used when programming graphical user interface (GUI) components.

An API is a software intermediary that allows two applications to talk to each other. In other words, an API is the messenger that delivers your request to the provider that you're requesting it from and then delivers the response back to you.

Now the move makes a lot more sense, Mark.  It means your developers are at the behest of the Operating System, and that maintaining a data bank of code that will always work, no matter what the .NET version that's available, would limit the functioning of this software.

And, truth be told, it's one of the most powerful software packages ever created.  For those of us with some programming experience, it baffles the mind as to what Faithlife has done, here.  The graphics and inter-reference linkages are just outstanding, and the functions available are stunning (for example, the new choices menu that occurs when you highlight text).

Blessings.  Your response, Mark, was just what I had in mind, and it explains a lot.

Paul

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William Whitt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2019 7:38 AM

I'm currently using a 2011 27" iMac, which is running like a dream.  We originally bought it with maxed out specs and have since put an SSD drive in it.

It's a shame Logos has decided not to support a computer that is less than 10 years old.  Many churches (mine included) buy hardware for long-term use, and we can't afford to drop $2,000 to get an equivalent new iMac just because one app will not work.

We've invested thousands of dollars over the years in this product, so this is disappointing news, to say the least...

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8Isaiah20 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2019 7:52 AM
Agreed. My understanding is limited, but my husband is a software engineer at HP, and though he's committed to work with WIN 10, everything in our home is either XP and/or 7. We turned off Updates on our computer shortly after WIN8, and our computer is scanned/modified regularly to make sure which Updates actually serve our OS and what is simply another means to gather info without our knowledge. 
No, we're not paranoid or conspiracy theorists. My husband comes from three generations of HP engineers and participated heavily in the creation of  Brandon Eich's "Brave." They all saw changes coming way back when Carly took over HP, and were not surprised at any of what people are now writing about. Fortunately, there are a number of places one can go to work through  WIN7 issues no longer covered by MS. Either way, it's not my intention to turn this into a theological discussion on consequences of these ongoing actions, otherwise known as "progress."  I'm just thankful for not giving up my library of non-electronic information, which my kids have promised not to sell or destroy after I'm gone. BOOK As a physical object, a book is a stack of usually rectangular pages (made of papyrus, parchment, vellum, or paper) oriented with one edge tied, sewn, or otherwise fixed together and then bound to the flexible spine of a protective cover of heavier, relatively inflexible material.[1] The technical term for this physical arrangement is codex (in the plural, codices). In the history of hand-held physical supports for extended written compositions or records, the codex replaces its immediate predecessor, the scroll. A single sheet in a codex is a leaf, and each side of a leaf is a page.
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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2019 7:55 AM

Welcome to the forums, William.

Again, as Mark stated above, Logos is not saying that Logos will stop working on an older computer. It's just that they can't promise that it will keep working as time goes by. The original post said that Logos 8.11 or 8.12 will be the last supported version. It will continue to run on your older computer, as will others past it, until something breaks (because of Apple or Microsoft updates).

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Summary

On February 4, 2020, the operating systems below will enter Maintenance Support status

  • Windows 7
  • Windows 8.1
  • 32-bit versions of Windows 10
  • MacOS 10.11 "El Capitan"
  • MacOS 10.12 "Sierra"
  • MacOS 10.13 "High Sierra"

By the end of 2020, these operating systems will no longer be supported for Logos Bible Software. 

Background 

Microsoft has announced that Windows 7 will be "end of life" on January 14, 2020. While we don't anticipate any immediate problems using Logos on Windows 7, it will not be a priority to maintain backward compatibility with an operating system that is no longer supported by its provider. We will move Windows 7 to maintenance support status at the next scheduled version, 8.11 on February 4, 2020.

Furthermore, only a small segment of Logos users are running on the older operating systems named above. In order to develop and test the application more efficiently, all of these operating systems will enter maintenance support at the same time. 

What does "Maintenance Support" mean? 

Logos 8 will continue to receive updates, but we will no longer test the application on these operating systems, nor deliver bug fixes that exclusively affect them. 

If at any point we should discover that we are no longer able to ship updates to older operating systems, or some other serious issue arises that makes them incompatible with Logos, we will end support without further advanced notice. In any case, all of the operating systems above will be unsupported by the end of 2020. 

Read more about the Support Lifecycle.

In other words, you'll be able to continue to use Logos and even update it until an update breaks it. At that point, you can go back to the last update that works (remember to keep backups!) and continue to use Logos for a long time after that.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2019 8:46 AM

I'll try and put this even more simply. This notice isn't saying existing installations are going to stop working, just that if you're on an old PC running an old OS, you're going to have to run with an old version of Logos in the future. That's surely to be expected, isn't it?

Reading between the lines, it's very likely that this notice from Faithlife simply means that:

  1. Logos 9, likely to be released in Q3 2020, is likely to require Windows 10 or MacOS 10.14 or higher.
  2. Current versions of Logos 8 will continue to run quite happily on Windows 7-8 and MacOS 10.11-10.13. There's a small possibility that later versions of Logos 8 won't run on those Operating Systems, but that's fairly unlikely.
  3. A relatively small number of new resources released after the launch of Logos 9 won't work on Logos 8 and earlier. Existing resources and most new resources will be unaffected.

I'll say it again. You do not have to worry that you're going to lose your investment. It's very unlikely that your existing installations are going to stop working even after 2020.

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