Liturgical Press: Wisdom Commentary about to Ship

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Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 18 2019 8:04 PM

Hello Hamilton:

I honestly was not speaking about anyone.  I wasn't referring to anyone.  I was reading the above, had a bit of a sick feeling in my stomach over what sometimes seems like "headiness" of this academic/scholarly chatter of the Christian faith, and then realized that I was content not understanding it.  That led to my epiphany, and I shared it.  That simple. 

I think studying God's Word and knowing the truth is important.  But, I think because I'm reading all these books for one of my classes on the Pietistic Tradition, while at the same time I am entrenched in the book of Galatians, ("You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you..."), I'm hungry for the simplicity of the gospel and "Jesus loves me this I know."  And in that moment, I realized how God has protected me, and I'm thankful.  Like I said, that simple.

Blessings,

Cynthia

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 568
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2019 8:38 AM

Cynthia:

So true, very well expressed.

 1 Corinthians 2:5

that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 

Peace and grace.

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2019 3:33 PM

Denise:

Cynthia in Florida:
I am, truly and with all sincerity, for the very first time in my life, content with my level of intelligence.

Well, duh. Smiling. First, you've always been very intelligent. From up above, a gift. You're a leader. But more importantly, the folks that sat on the hillside, forgetting their lunch box, amazed by Jesus didn't need a whole lot of interesting information. Believe, he said.

Ahhhhh....thank you Denise. I LOVE what you said, that those on the hillside didn't need a whole lot of interesting information.  I guess my epiphany has come because I am so stressed out over all these papers I have to write and it hurts my brain.  Something about all this academic approach to faith was making me feel heady.    "Believe, he said."  Simple.  I like it!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 26151
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2019 7:09 PM

Denise:

Cynthia in Florida:
I am, truly and with all sincerity, for the very first time in my life, content with my level of intelligence.

Well, duh. Smiling. First, you've always been very intelligent. From up above, a gift. You're a leader. But more importantly, the folks that sat on the hillside, forgetting their lunch box, amazed by Jesus didn't need a whole lot of interesting information. Believe, he said.

Yes

One thing I learned in religious studies (Buddhist studies), for an academic it can be an advantage to be a non-believer - less pressure for confirmation bias. The believer can use the academic to refine their faith but have no reason to want to be an academic unless that is their natural inclination. One's model for a life of faith should never be academic or religious leader - it should be Jesus Christ and those few people you'll actually meet who clearly reflect Jesus Christ's love.

The trouble is that software tools by their very nature emphasize the academic. So please support the Logos resources that defy this tendency - things like: The Way of the Pilgrim, The Ladder of Divine Ascent, The Cloud of Unknowing . . .

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 568
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 20 2019 10:49 AM

Cynthia in Florida:
I am so stressed out over all these papers I have to write and it hurts my brain.

Cynthia feel free to mention some of the papers you have to write about. Posters can then provide ideas, approaches, keywords / topics / themes, etc.

that can help you determine how to tackle some of them.

Sometimes when we do sources research we are gathering key ideas, and the like to narrow the topic and to get a rough idea of how to organize logically the paper.

Once you have the basic down, then you can focus on your particular contribution to the theme.

https://ebooks.faithlife.com/search?query=research&sortBy=Relevance&limit=60&page=1&filters=status-live_Status&ownership=all

Peace and grace.

LOL: human wisdom is not bad of itself except when is against revealed truth from God, and / or trying to supplant God's will, direction, etc.

Posts 568
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 20 2019 2:55 PM

Hi Denise and participants of this thread.

I have been researching, and came upon some interesting information:

"The various reading perspectives discern and identify sometimes overlooked aspects and accents within the Bible; they call attention to how these are strategic in the life and faith of a particular people. Viewed with openness, each perspective can inform us, raise our consciousness, advise us, and increase awareness of our mutual responsibilities as believers. This is as it should be, because the Bible is the property of the entire church, and each reading community within the church has insights to share with an interest to enlarge the church’s vision of God and God’s work among and through us in the world. The quest to understand and rightly utilize the Bible makes that sharing necessary. The plurality of reading perspectives makes that sharing possible. Meanwhile, we must understand that although readings of the Bible can be influenced by life within a particular social location, no reading should lead to an isolating hermeneutic, nor should it end as a reading that is location-controlled."

 Massey, J. E. (1994–2004). Reading the Bible from Particular Social Locations: An Introduction. In L. E. Keck (Ed.), New Interpreter’s Bible (Vol. 1, p. 152). Nashville: Abingdon Press.

"Reading the Bible as Women

CAROLYN OSIEK

Do women read the Bible differently from men? To judge from recent studies on gender differences, the answer must be yes, since such studies indicate that, based on the differences of socialization and experience due to gender, women generally interpret their world differently than do men."

 Osiek, C. (1994–2004). Reading the Bible as Women. In L. E. Keck (Ed.), New Interpreter’s Bible (Vol. 1, p. 181). Nashville: Abingdon Press.

"CRUCIAL QUESTIONS AND SOME RESPONSES

Beyond the flourishing scholarship by women for women about biblical women that continues today, however, the fundamental questions remain, the questions that must be asked by every woman of biblical faith whose consciousness has been raised this far: Is the Bible redemptive for women? Taking the question a step further, is the Bible redeemable for women? There is an unavoidable problem with the foundational document of Jewish and Christian faith, in that it sometimes ignores women or treats us only as threats to men (androcentrism), sometimes expresses contempt and fear of us (misogynism), and sometimes treats us as dangerously ignorant beings that must be controlled (patriarchalism)."

 Osiek, C. (1994–2004). Reading the Bible as Women. In L. E. Keck (Ed.), New Interpreter’s Bible (Vol. 1, p. 183). Nashville: Abingdon Press.

It would be interesting to get some input from female posters, on some of the questions above and in the article.

In my understanding, when Paul was expressing some of the limitations with respect to gender, he mentioned that they were mandates of God and not made up stuff from him.

God Himself created women as a fit aid for man. At no point did Jesus reverse that. There is no explicit reversion so that men will eventually become a fit aid for women.

Many feminist Christians do not fully explain their take on that particular situation.

Another question is what submission entails?

It surely is not oppression or messing up with person's dignity.

The model proposed by the Bible is Jesus caring for, and working with, and directing for higher purposes the Bride (true church). Not exploiting her in self serving intentions, nor humiliating its dignity.

Very interested on what women have to say. Do you read the Bible different, do you consider that human male interpretation is out of whack with the true message presented in the Bible?

How about social location? Do you consider that you have been short changed in the Western structure because of a misinterpretation of Biblical spiritual message?

Thanks ahead of time for your input.

Posts 10043
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 20 2019 3:22 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
How about social location? Do you consider that you have been short changed in the Western structure because of a misinterpretation of Biblical spiritual message?

Hamilton, are you talking Logos software bugs? A recommended resource? How to close multiple tabs?  These are good forum questions.

But regarding your not-forum question, and being humorous:

- I'm an 'eastern' person (my forum image is a chikusen biwa; no idea who the guy is). I could care less about any Western structure. But biwa tuning pegs come loose in dry climates like here. This is a truly maddening issue.

- I don't use interpretations, nor for that matter a Biblical spiritual message. These are other folks' theological constructs. They can happily be short changed, if they like. I don't recall short-changing advice in the Bible.

Less humorous, I do get tired of presumed men of God using the text for their own pleasure. I think 1 Kings 13 spoke to that problem, if I recall. I was surprised the donkey was uninjured.


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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 20 2019 5:05 PM

Hamilton Ramos:

In my understanding, when Paul was expressing some of the limitations with respect to gender, he mentioned that they were mandates of God and not made up stuff from him.

God Himself created women as a fit aid for man. At no point did Jesus reverse that. There is no explicit reversion so that men will eventually become a fit aid for women.

Many feminist Christians do not fully explain their take on that particular situation.

Another question is what submission entails?

It surely is not oppression or messing up with person's dignity.

Perhaps theological viewpoints and discussions about gender, submission, and/or feminism are better off on a different website?

Hamilton Ramos:
Very interested on what women have to say.

Perhaps you could buy the collection and read what woman have to say?

Posts 568
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 20 2019 9:52 PM

Thanks Denise for the answer.

With women input maybe the importance of the series could be realized, as many male posters can relate closer to female posters here that they respect and trust, to see if the fuss about a feminine hermeneutic could show angles not normally considered by men.

The topic is so interesting, that I think some males would consider learning more about the feminine point of view, because it presents very valid critique.

Kind regards.

Posts 568
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 20 2019 9:58 PM

Peta Christian:

I laid down the key issue many males see about the gender difference concept. God was clear on each gender role.

Why this is not talked about much?

Maybe resources that touch on this can be mentioned, and / or ways to explore the topic and in recommended female hermeneutic series / collection, etc. can be proposed.

The article on the New Interpreter's Bible is very illuminating, it touches on many important topics, that it made me curious to hear from trusted females about some points.

The intent was not to polemicist or violate guidelines, but to encourage more research about this important (and often overlooked) subject.

Kind regards.

Posts 568
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2019 7:14 PM

PetahChristian:
Perhaps you could buy the collection and read what woman have to say?

Rosie kindly shared a collection rule long ago:

title:(feminis, female, gender, women, sexes) OR  "biblical equality" OR subject:(feminist, gender, women) OR mytag:gender -"men and women of the bible" -mytag:"library of early"

Is there a Female author collection anywhere?

How about Female feminist author collection?

Does anybody know?

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