BUG? - Information missing from new Context menu?

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 23 2019 10:29 AM

Under the old context menu the Greek and Hebrew words were clearly identified with descriptors - MANUSCRIPT, LEMMA ETC

I can manage the lack of these helpful terms in the Greek but my Hebrew is VERY limited.

Can anyone explain [or point me to a thread] as to why this helpful information is now missing in this "new" version of the Context Menu?

Thanks

Regards, SteveF

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2019 10:49 AM

Your question is about an issue with 8.7? Do the descriptors appear when you hover over each line (which is what happens for me in 8.6)? 

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Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2019 11:33 AM

JT (alabama24):
an issue with 8.7?

Yes, the latest Beta version.

"When you hover over each line?" - I am unsure what you mean "Alabama"

[I cannot get a "snip" as it disappears when I click on the screen]

eg Isaiah 1:1 in NIV 2011 The "vision" .concerning Judah etc.. 

the new right click menu -- The new left side of it.

- Selection vision

- Reference Isaiah 1:1

[Then there is a faint horizontal grey coloured separator line] beneath it are 3 lines of Hebrew words,

on the 2nd & 3rd lines there are English glosses after the Hebrew words.

- 2nd line:  "vision, word of revelation"

- 3rd line: "to see, behold"

In the past those lines with Hebrew word(s) and English glosses had further English words to the right of them in CAPITAL letters such as MANUSCRIPT OR LEMMA etc

That no longer appears.

Were they removed even before this latest beta? Did I just miss that change?

[Sorry to be unable to produce a visual representation.]

Thanks for your questions

 

Regards, SteveF

Posts 10115
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2019 12:56 PM

Steve, just for info, I have L7, which is as Alabama describes ... only the unknowable images are visible (pi, @, <>) ... the uppercase english demand a mouseover ... eg SELECTION, MANUSCRIPT, LEMMA, etc


Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2019 1:19 PM

THANK YOU Alabama and Denise

Sadly, I had my Information "update" set on "click" rather than "hover" so any  "mouseover" was not working for me.

EDIT: It works the way you describe (with hover revealing those desired terms) on my Stable 8.6 Verbum software

But NOT on my 8.7 Beta Logos

 

Regards, SteveF

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2019 1:30 PM

SteveF:

In the past those lines with Hebrew word(s) and English glosses had further English words to the right of them in CAPITAL letters such as MANUSCRIPT OR LEMMA etc

That no longer appears.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2019 1:31 PM

SteveF:

It works the way you describe (with hover revealing those desired terms) on my Stable 8.6 Verbum software

But NOT on my 8.7 Beta Logos

OK. In which case I assume this is a bug. 

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2019 1:39 PM

JT (alabama24):
OK. In which case I assume this is a bug. 

Thanks Alabama

Regards, SteveF

Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2019 1:41 PM

Thank you for being able to put up this screen sshot.

YES - That is the "(correct"/expected) behaviour that is present in my 8.6 Verbum

But the Beta 8.7 Logos is not working that way for me. "Hover" does not reveal those terms etc

Thanks again

Regards, SteveF

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 31 2019 11:19 AM

Sorry the delay responding here.

JT (alabama24):
I assume this is a bug.

This is not a bug; it was an intentional design choice for the context menu refresh.

We removed the inline, on-hover context label (Lemma, Root, Person, etc.) when we added it as a header on the command (right) side.   

Yes, we recognize that this leaves only the icons to distinguish them on the left side; but I think it wouldn't take long for a regular user to realize that "√" means root, etc. 

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

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Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 31 2019 6:02 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
"√" means root, etc. 

Unfortunately I have never been able to figure out the reasoning/meaning behind most of Logos'  icons.

[old guy - raised on "text-based" notation etc.]

But Thanks Adam for this reply. It is appreciated.

Regards, SteveF

Posts 4911
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2019 12:12 AM

Root, I get the icon bit the rest never had any meaning I could associate with the terms they represented. I think it’s a big and disappointing assumption on FL’s part that we will know what these mean. And what about new users to the software. How are they to learn what the symbols mean. Is this going to be properly documented in the softwares help file? 

SteveF:

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
"√" means root, etc. 

Unfortunately I have never been able to figure out the reasoning/meaning behind most of Logos'  icons.

[old guy - raised on "text-based" notation etc.]

But Thanks Adam for this reply. It is appreciated.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2019 5:49 PM

DIsciple II:
And what about new users to the software. How are they to learn what the symbols mean.

On hover, there is no explanation for the root symbol in Morph Search; whilst there is something for lemmas.

Dave
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2019 6:19 PM

DIsciple II:
Root, I get the icon bit the rest never had any meaning I could associate with the terms they represented.

Yes

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DIsciple II:
the rest never had any meaning I could associate with the terms they represented

Let me take a stab at helping build some associations for you. Note that this is only my own interpretation, since I had no involvement in creating the icons.

From the top...

καρδίαν - surface text - looks like lines of text in a book

καρδία - lemma - looks like the translation ring in a Bible word study (which operates on lemmas)

καρδια - root - looks like a mathematical square root symbol

NASF - morph - uses the symbol used to display the morphology picker in a morph search

Strong's Greek #2588 / LN 26.3 - data type reference - uses the < > symbols that are used when searching for places where a reference is tagged

self <=> heart - sense - nope, I got nothing. I know it's a Greek alpha, but I don't associate it with anything

Heart - Bible knowledgebase reference with a subtype of Thing - it's a box, which is an object... a thing

Jesus' ministry / etc. - event - like a flag on a map, marking where something occurred

Jesus - speaker - a megaphone, someone talking

Disciples - addressee - a person with sound waves coming at their head... they're being talked to

Adultery - preaching theme - a pulpit

The remainder are data type references, as above.

It's not much, but hopefully is of some help.

Posts 1887
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 7:51 AM

The fact that we need a legend to explain the icons (IMO) proves the previous points about them not being discoverable / intuitive (a point with which I agree). I know space is limited, but there's got to be something better than hoping I pick the right one.

-Donnie

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 3:21 PM

Allow me to reinterate my request that a key to the icons be included in help ... and that a template of them be available for diagrams.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 4:01 PM

Out of sight, out of mind. It would be a better experience for the information to be readily visible, instead of requiring us to recall the icon meanings, or remember where to find the legend. Let’s not make things more cryptic or obscure, please.

Logos Help is not an option I tend to think of or use, unfortunately. If there’s no “tooltip” to explain something, I turn to Google out of habit.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 4:26 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
NASF - morph - uses the symbol used to display the morphology picker in a morph search

For people like me who have (used the context menu to run a morph search, but) have never typed in a morph search string, this association would be foreign.

Logos is quite powerful. One of the things that gets brought up now and then is that people only use about 10% of the program. Removing the icon meanings would make Logos slightly harder to use for us neophytes, and make the learning curve slightly steeper.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 4:56 PM

PetahChristian:
For people like me who have (used the context menu to run a morph search, but) have never typed in a morph search string, this association would be foreign.

That symbol aside, NASF is translated by the text that follows. People familiar with a morphological search would understand what was intended.

PetahChristian:
Removing the icon meanings would make Logos slightly harder to use for us neophytes, and make the learning curve slightly steeper.

With time, their meaning will stick. And one only has to click to see a meaning on the opposite side, but you still have to understand 'Morph', 'Lemma', 'Root', 'Manuscript', 'Thing', 'Sense' etc.! There is always a learning curve.

Dave
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