Sanctify all word forms does not get sanctification

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Bob Diebel | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Aug 6 2019 1:49 PM

Is there a reason "sanctify" - all word forms,  does not get sanctification?

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 1:59 PM

Bob Diebel:

Is there a reason "sanctify" - all word forms,  does not get sanctification?

Because what you want is sanctif*. Sanctify will only give you forms with the "y" like sanctifying.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 8050
LogosEmployee

"Match all word forms" is powered by an algorithm (not a dictionary), so sometimes it "understems" and doesn't group words that you think should have the same root.

See my previous posts for more information: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/87708/615401.aspx#615401 https://community.logos.com/forums/p/61695/437957.aspx#437957

Posts 2332
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 6:51 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
"Match all word forms" is powered by an algorithm (not a dictionary), so sometimes it "understems" and doesn't group words that you think should have the same root.

Is sanctif considered a stem?

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 25030
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 5:44 PM

Beloved:
Is sanctif considered a stem?

In its own right, it is not a word, so use it in a Search with "Match all word forms"!

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 2332
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 8 2019 6:48 AM

Dave Hooton:

Beloved:
Is sanctif considered a stem?

In its own right, it is not a word, so use it in a Search with "Match all word forms"!

Dave,

As you can see from my advice to the OP that I was aware of this fact, but what I'm trying to understand is why/how it works in light of Bradley's post. I don't understand this algorithm factor. How are we to determine what word or stem will work for our searches; trial and error?

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 8050
LogosEmployee

Beloved:
Sanctify will only give you forms with the "y" like sanctifying.

This isn't true. It will match: sanctify, sanctifying, sanctifies, sanctified, sanctifier (and possibly more).

Posts 8050
LogosEmployee

Beloved:
How are we to determine what word or stem will work for our searches; trial and error?

It's probably more helpful to think in terms of "groups" of words, not "stems". Here are some groups of words determined by the current algorithm. With "Match all word forms" on, searching for one of the words in any group will find matches for all other words in that group (but won't find words from other groups).

  • sanctification
  • sanctify, sanctifies, sanctified, sanctifying
  • sanctifieth
  • sanction, sanctions, sanctioned
  • sanctity
  • sanctuary, sanctuaries, sanctuary's

In some cases you can forcibly override these groupings in a helpful way, e.g., by searching for "sanctif*" which finds words from the first three groups, which all happen to be related. But "sanct*" would probably be an unhelpful search because it would find a lot of words that aren't related.

Posts 2332
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 8 2019 1:05 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Beloved:
Sanctify will only give you forms with the "y" like sanctifying.

This isn't true. It will match: sanctify, sanctifying, sanctifies, sanctified, sanctifier (and possibly more).

Yes of course you are right. This reply reflected how I formerly conceived things worked. Which I might add was logical. The way things actually work is only apparent to a programmer, thus the OP's surprise and question.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Beloved:
How are we to determine what word or stem will work for our searches; trial and error?

It's probably more helpful to think in terms of "groups" of words, not "stems". Here are some groups of words determined by the current algorithm. With "Match all word forms" on, searching for one of the words in any group will find matches for all other words in that group (but won't find words from other groups).

  • sanctification
  • sanctify, sanctifies, sanctified, sanctifying
  • sanctifieth
  • sanction, sanctions, sanctioned
  • sanctity
  • sanctuary, sanctuaries, sanctuary's

In some cases you can forcibly override these groupings in a helpful way, e.g., by searching for "sanctif*" which finds words from the first three groups, which all happen to be related. But "sanct*" would probably be an unhelpful search because it would find a lot of words that aren't related.

Thanks for this clarification, but as things are one may frequently come to be surprised by the result of ones searches learning relationships by trial. This operation to me is messy. But, thanks for taking the time to explain.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 201
Bob Diebel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 8 2019 2:20 PM

Thanx much to all who took the time to help.

Posts 25030
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 8 2019 2:56 PM

Beloved:
As you can see from my advice to the OP that I was aware of this fact, but what I'm trying to understand is why/how it works in light of Bradley's post. I don't understand this algorithm factor. How are we to determine what word or stem will work for our searches; trial and error?

The answer to your question involves trial and error. But I usually use the word I'm interested in, rather than guessing a 'stem' form. On occasion, you have to use the wildcard * for a satisfactory result.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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