Download all resources option not appearing

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This post has 28 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 6
Jonathan Eric Lewis | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Sep 19 2019 2:18 PM

I’m aware of the idea on this forum that it is not a good idea to download all resources on a mobile device.  However, I believe the iPad is up to the task.  Normally it takes a little while after installing, but eventually in the library I get the option to download all (or however it says it),  This time though, that option is not showing up.  Can anyone give me any insight?  Thank you guys so much!

Posts 2339
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 2:47 PM

I think it might have been removed. I've not been getting the option on the Android app for some time either.

However, you can go to the desktop app, open a library pane, mark all resources, and then mark the checkbox next to the mobile device you want to send them to.

It sometimes takes a few minutes before the library then actually downloads on the device.

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Joe McCune (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 2:50 PM

Downloading all books in a single transaction is no longer supported, because doing so has caused many problems in the past. 

We don’t recommend that you download all Library resources, but only those resources that are absolutely necessary.  Of course, you are free to download more than that, if you wish.

On your mobile device, you can use Library filters to select resources to download in groups of less than 100, as many times as you wish.

If you have Logos installed on a Windows or Mac computer, you can use the Logos software to manage which resources download to your mobile devices.  Further information is available here

Posts 5095
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 3:57 PM

While I never downloaded all of my library to mobile, far too many for it to be practical, FL have set a heavy handed precedent here by removing user choice for those with much smaller libraries and don’t have regular internet access. It is a disappointing approach to see and was not well communicated as others besides myself were not aware of this significant change.

Joe McCune (Faithlife):

Downloading all books in a single transaction is no longer supported, because doing so has caused many problems in the past. 

We don’t recommend that you download all Library resources, but only those resources that are absolutely necessary.  Of course, you are free to download more than that, if you wish.

On your mobile device, you can use Library filters to select resources to download in groups of less than 100, as many times as you wish.

If you have Logos installed on a Windows or Mac computer, you can use the Logos software to manage which resources download to your mobile devices.  Further information is available here

Posts 2724
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 8:06 AM

Here's where this feature was a huge help. I search for a book of the Bible, like Hebrews. Then I want to download all of the resulting books. This was so easy and therefore I really wish this feature was added back for this reason alone.

You say it can be done do it in less than 100. How do I do this? This might be just as good, but it's not as discoverable.

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Joe McCune (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 8:23 AM

Hi Kevin, if you can enter a search term in Library that brings up less than a hundred books, you will then have the option available for "Download All".

For sample if you go to Library and enter in the word "jones" and get 99 results, you will be able to use Download All.  But you will not be able to do that if the results are 100 or more.

Posts 557
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 9:55 AM

I'd like to add my voice to those lamenting the disappearance of this option. I have a 3rd gen iPad Pro with 256 gigs and since getting this iPad in November 2018 i've never yet had a single issue with the Logos app related to having all the resources downloaded, which in my case exceeds 5,000 resources. If there are problems, are they caused by the program itself not being able to handle the resources? If so, it's time to work on the program. If it's the hardware, then it seems it would be more appropriate to say that the software doesn't work unless the device meets certain specs. This would be the same thing that Logos does with the necessary specs needed to run the desktop app as Logos currently does here:

https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007506971-Logos-Minimum-System-Requirements

John

Posts 2724
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 11:19 AM

Joe McCune (Faithlife):

Hi Kevin, if you can enter a search term in Library that brings up less than a hundred books, you will then have the option available for "Download All".

For sample if you go to Library and enter in the word "jones" and get 99 results, you will be able to use Download All.  But you will not be able to do that if the results are 100 or more.

NOPE!

See the attached. 83 results, but no Download All button, unless it's hiding somewhere. It used to show up when you pull down. But it's not there.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 11:27 AM

John Kaess:
If it's the hardware, then it seems it would be more appropriate to say that the software doesn't work unless the device meets certain specs. This would be the same thing that Logos does with the necessary specs needed to run the desktop app as Logos currently does here:

In a way, they have done this. If you want all of your resources downloaded, the "minimum system requirements" include either macOS or Windows. 

The mobile app is prone to the installation becoming corrupted. Part of this is due to the nature of the platform and the limitations of the hardware. This can cause any number of problems, including difficulties with syncing of notes/highlights. It is also common for the "best fix" to be a delete and reinstall. If a user has 20 resources downloaded, a reinstall is fairly minor. If they have 5,000 (as you do), a reinstall can be very significant. 

John Kaess:
If there are problems, are they caused by the program itself not being able to handle the resources? If so, it's time to work on the program.

This is problematic because FL doesn't make money directly from the app. As a Mac user, I am sensitive to the Mac development lagging behind. Having mobile (which I love) only adds to the list... and it is doubled with Android. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 11:31 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
83 results, but no Download All button, unless it's hiding somewhere. It used to show up when you pull down. But it's not there.

I can verify your experience. I do not see a download all button, even for a sub 100 subset. 

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LogosEmployee
Joe McCune (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 3:33 PM

Please accept my apologies, everyone, this now works a little differently than it did in previous versions.

Once you have filtered your books down to less than a hundred, tap on "Select".

Then tap on the three dots at the bottom and select Download.

This procedure also works for removing resources as well as downloading them.

Posts 2724
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 3:53 PM

I’m sorry if I’m being too critical, but who thought that was a good change? That is not a simple customer centric design choice. Why not just work to fix the problems caused by downloading the full library. I have 256GB iPad and 512 on my iPhone. 

Posts 557
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 6:03 PM

JT (alabama24):
This is problematic because FL doesn't make money directly from the app. As a Mac user, I am sensitive to the Mac development lagging behind. Having mobile (which I love) only adds to the list... and it is doubled with Android. 

I'm going to challenge this position. I've been a customer since the late 90's and i think i can safely say that that i've spent well over $10,000 on resources. Logos does not charge for the software to run on windows, or Mac or IOS or android. The funds for writing ALL of their software comes from the sale of resources. As a customer, and as a long term customer, and as a long term customer who has invested a LOT of years, and money with Logos, i believe that i should expect that Logos write useable software for every platform they support. It is disingenuous to say that we should not expect the software on IOS to be able to load an entire library when the Mac and Windows software does. It is also flatly wrong to say that the reason is because Logos does not charge to use the IOS software. That is equally true of EVERY platform Logos supports. This is a decision that Logos has made deliberately and as long as you (and others) keep making excuses, they will see no reason to actually address these valid concerns which customers are expressing.

Posts 10229
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 7:09 PM

There is some irony here.

I was chatting with Libby last week, basically going over old times. She could selectively download, import, customize, etc I really had to slow her down.

Then the Logos boys came in, demanding full downloads, none of this import stuff, and custom belongs in custom-er ($$).  In the meantime the mobile folks slipped in Libby's tune. Download some or download all. I'm guessing the Logos boys were out to lunch that day.

Now, it's almost the 10 years anniversary (Libby's sad end). The Logos boys roll out giving customers a choice (like Libby!). And the mobile folks quickly (and quietly) swap places. 


Posts 5095
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 4 2019 1:18 AM

John Kaess:
This is a decision that Logos has made deliberately and as long as you (and others) keep making excuses, they will see no reason to actually address these valid concerns which customers are expressing.

Sadly John I run into this attitude too from time to time and your assessment that this provides FL an out from dealing with these valid issues is the consequence.  They are quick to listen to those who defend them and take offence at people who call for them to do better than what they are currently settling for as acceptable.

Posts 5095
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 4 2019 1:27 AM

Denise:

There is some irony here.

I was chatting with Libby last week, basically going over old times. She could selectively download, import, customize, etc I really had to slow her down.

Then the Logos boys came in, demanding full downloads, none of this import stuff, and custom belongs in custom-er ($$).  In the meantime the mobile folks slipped in Libby's tune. Download some or download all. I'm guessing the Logos boys were out to lunch that day.

Now, it's almost the 10 years anniversary (Libby's sad end). The Logos boys roll out giving customers a choice (like Libby!). And the mobile folks quickly (and quietly) swap places. 

So typical of FL, no internal communication.

After many years of the Logos boys saying no selective downloading can't be offered in the desktop app so stop asking for it, its' too hard, they suddenly find a way to do it.

But as always, they didn't send a memo out to the other departments and the mobile folks thought they were being clever and stepping up to be like the big Logos boys and so took away selective downloading.

But alas the mobile folks end up behind the big Logos boys again.

It's typical and ironic at the same time.

And meanwhile in forum land everyday customers remain miffed.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 4 2019 2:34 AM

DIsciple II:
.

But as always, they didn't send a memo out to the other departments and the mobile folks thought they were being clever and stepping up to be like the big Logos boys and so took away selective downloading.

I don’t understand this comment.

As I understand it two things have changed:

1) There is now a limit on the number of resources that can be downloaded at one time from within the mobile app on iOS - and this is now aligned with the Android platform (I haven‘t tracked this particular issue closely and so could be wrong)

2) The mechanism for selective downloading has changed but is still there as per the screenshot below

Am I missing something here?

Posts 2724
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 4 2019 7:26 AM

Graham Criddle:

2) The mechanism for selective downloading has changed but is still there as per the screenshot below

Am I missing something here?

What you are not taking into account...

1. It used to be very easy to download a large number of books. Search for a kind of book, as in my above example. Search for Hebrews. In my library that's about 50+ books. Pull down and hit download. The "new improved" system requires you to make 5 selections to get the same result. That's a regression for the user. The already complex app gets uselessly more complex. Other complexity is often good because complexity comes with power. This was a silly change because it made the app work less efficiently and is harder to discover for new users.

2. The option of downloading a complete library is not longer present, which again negatively effects the user who wants to have their complete library.

3. We're told that the reason for removing this easier to use option that some users enjoyed having (and took up time for developers who could have been doing something else) is because the implementation of a complete library download was problematic. Instead of fixing what was the problem, they came up with a solution that disappointed some users.

All of that is fine. I'll get over it. I now see how to get the same result I wanted, but others who want the full library download do not get what they once could get and didn't seem to have problems with the complete library download. Of if they did, they would prefer to have the full library than have the stability that seems to come from only downloading a few (I've not seen any issues with downloading my complete library, when I did so after I first got my 256GB iPad Pro or 128GB Google Pixelbook).

I know this. I'm glad I don't have to please a huge customer base like Bob does. Good luck on that. Wink

Posts 10229
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 4 2019 9:05 AM

Graham Criddle:

DIsciple II:
.

But as always, they didn't send a memo out to the other departments and the mobile folks thought they were being clever and stepping up to be like the big Logos boys and so took away selective downloading.

I don’t understand this comment.

I think Disciple meant full-download. It's really been hectic these last 10 years trying to follow Logos-logic.

Personally, I barely download ... mainly a reminder who's next at bat.

But why downloading and app instability remains a problem after so many years is yet another Logos-logic mystery. My impression is the app server routines were written as second-fiddle to the desktop demands.


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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 4 2019 10:40 AM

Denise:

It's really been hectic these last 10 years trying to follow Logos-logic.

The logic behind the desktop downloading everything: the app is designed to be a research library. For users to be able to search that entire library required all the books to be downloaded. With advances in FL’s ability to utilize the cloud, users can now have a partial library downloaded while still searching the entire library (when online). 

The logic behind mobile downloading: the app is not meant to be a replacement for the desktop app. It is meant to be primarily a reader app. It doesn’t have the same “search the entire library“ functionality. Some users clamored for the ability to “download all,” so it was added as a hidden feature. Over time, however, it became clear that it caused troubles for many users and added to the kinds of support issues FL had to deal with. In light of this, they have apparently taken away the hidden feature. 

I can understand why some users are disappointed that it has been taken away, but it was always a bit of a hazardous thing to do. It isn’t just that users might have to redownload everything: it also caused the corruption of notes/highlights (when resource files weren’t in sync) and difficulties (or the inability) to reinstall the app. Faithlife has willy/nilly taken this away... rather, they have decided that (at present at least) it is in the user’s best interests. 

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