LORD formatting when pasting

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This post has 16 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 27
Gavin Murphy | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 1 2019 12:00 PM

Hello all, 

"LORD" (in small caps) comes out as "Lord" when copying from the desktop app and the Web App. The only app it pastes correctly in is Microsoft Word. It does not work in Pages, Numbers, email, notes, texts, etc. 

There should be an option to copy as plain text and have Logos format it as LORD (in ALL caps) so other programs get the formatting correct. 

For example, is Lord Yahweh or Adonai? Both occur in this text but you can't tell which is which. 

10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz: 11 “Ask aa sign of the Lord your6 God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 And he7 said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you bweary my God also? 14 Therefore the cLord himself will give you a sign. dBehold, the evirgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name fImmanuel.

This is what it should look like:

10 Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz: 11 “Ask aa sign of the LORD your6 God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test.” 13 And he7 said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you bweary my God also? 14 Therefore the cLord himself will give you a sign. dBehold, the evirgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name fImmanuel.8

Posts 5173
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 12:54 PM

Gavin my initial thought is that since Word is handling it correctly the issue is not with Logs but the other applications and what their Paste routine is doing with the text. But I’m no expert in this area so I’ll leave it up to those who are to give an answer as to what is happening.

Gavin Murphy:

Hello all, 

"LORD" (in small caps) comes out as "Lord" when copying from the desktop app and the Web App. The only app it pastes correctly in is Microsoft Word. It does not work in Pages, Numbers, email, notes, texts, etc. 

There should be an option to copy as plain text and have Logos format it as LORD (in ALL caps) so other programs get the formatting correct. 

For example, is Lord Yahweh or Adonai? Both occur in this text but you can't tell which is which. 

10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz: 11 “Ask aa sign of the Lord your6 God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 And he7 said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you bweary my God also? 14 Therefore the cLord himself will give you a sign. dBehold, the evirgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name fImmanuel.

This is what it should look like:

10 Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz: 11 “Ask aa sign of the LORD your6 God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test.” 13 And he7 said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you bweary my God also? 14 Therefore the cLord himself will give you a sign. dBehold, the evirgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name fImmanuel.8

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 1:35 PM

Gavin Murphy:
For example, is Lord Yahweh or Adonai?

Yes, Yahweh is a human guess of the vowels for Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh. Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) introduction includes:

Gavin Murphy:
Both occur in this text but you can't tell which is which. 

Thankful for visual filters so can insert Hebrew:

Thankful for Faithlife group => https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/documents that has many shared visual filters (and associated highlighting palettes): e.g. Logos Hebrew Morphology - Names

Jewish reading of Isaiah 7 out loud sounded the same for Adonai and YHWH

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 27
Gavin Murphy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 2:09 PM

Thanks Disciple II ;-)

@Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) I meant that in verses 10-12 Yahweh is the underlying text, but in 14 it is Adonai. You can tell that by the difference of LORD or Lord in most translations. When copying and pasting to a text message, email, etc. you lose the LORD formatting which makes it look like Adonai is the underlying text everywhere. 

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 2:55 PM

One possible reason is that the font used by the app you’re pasting the formatted text into does not provide small caps glyphs. Try changing the font to one that supports that feature, and the verse may appear as you expect.

(Most fonts don’t offer small caps, so the word would appear as Lord. That’s not a Logos issue. Suggesting that Logos should paste LORD instead of Lord would actually stop small caps from correctly appearing with fonts that do offer them.)

Posts 27
Gavin Murphy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 6:04 PM

Hello PetahChristian, I am using Helvetica which has small caps.

I don't think Logos should change anything. I just think they should add a copy "Plain Text Only" feature in the menu that copies the small caps as LORD (all caps). 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 6:31 PM

Gavin Murphy:
I just think they should add a copy "Plain Text Only" feature in the menu that copies the small caps as LORD (all caps). 

Just an FYI - I'm used to making that choice in the paste rather than in the copy.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 10:24 PM

Gavin Murphy:
@Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) I meant that in verses 10-12 Yahweh is the underlying text, but in 14 it is Adonai. You can tell that by the difference of LORD or Lord in most translations. When copying and pasting to a text message, email, etc. you lose the LORD formatting which makes it look like Adonai is the underlying text everywhere. 

Desktop display work around is creating a Visual Filter to convert Small Caps Lord to ALL CAPS.

Created thread => Bug 8.8 RC 2 - Visual Filter ALL CAPS not kept for copy & paste since my attempts to copy LORD formatting from 8.8 RC 2 and paste always had small caps Lord (shows correctly in Word 14.7.2 on macOS 10.14.6).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5173
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 11:18 PM

KS4J you are providing some great information but it is not actually and what Gavin is having an issue with, his issue is when he pastes the text into another application that the small caps lettering disappears.

I do though really appreciate your passion for educating people about this great aspect of the software 😃

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Gavin Murphy:
@Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) I meant that in verses 10-12 Yahweh is the underlying text, but in 14 it is Adonai. You can tell that by the difference of LORD or Lord in most translations. When copying and pasting to a text message, email, etc. you lose the LORD formatting which makes it look like Adonai is the underlying text everywhere. 

Desktop display work around is creating a Visual Filter to convert Small Caps Lord to ALL CAPS.

Created thread => Bug 8.8 RC 2 - Visual Filter ALL CAPS not kept for copy & paste since my attempts to copy LORD formatting from 8.8 RC 2 and paste always had small caps Lord (shows correctly in Word 14.7.2 on macOS 10.14.6).

Keep Smiling Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 2 2019 6:23 AM

DIsciple II:
KS4J you are providing some great information but it is not actually and what Gavin is having an issue with, his issue is when he pastes the text into another application that the small caps lettering disappears.

When was disappointed with visual filter not providing desired work around for ALL CAPS formatting of LORD when pasting text, choose to write Truth in Love (Ephesians 4:15) using kind words (James 1:20) in thread => Bug 8.8 RC 2 - Visual Filter ALL CAPS not kept for copy & paste followed by replying to this thread with link to Bug thread (since Bug thread referred to this thread). Bug thread has examples of copy/paste issue for Faithlife development team (pasting into forum editor also changes small caps to lower case).

Observation: when my heart was choosing secret sin over loving God with everything in my being, my attempts to speak Truth in Love resulted in Truth being spoken from my perspective that failed to love others, especially my best human friend (who is now in heaven).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5173
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 2 2019 11:56 AM

I am sorry but not understanding at all what you are saying here. I‘m totally lost with what you are trying to explain but let’s both keep smiling anyway 😃

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

DIsciple II:
KS4J you are providing some great information but it is not actually and what Gavin is having an issue with, his issue is when he pastes the text into another application that the small caps lettering disappears.

When was disappointed with visual filter not providing desired work around for ALL CAPS formatting of LORD when pasting text, choose to write Truth in Love (Ephesians 4:15) using kind words (James 1:20) in thread => Bug 8.8 RC 2 - Visual Filter ALL CAPS not kept for copy & paste followed by replying to this thread with link to Bug thread (since Bug thread referred to this thread). Bug thread has examples of copy/paste issue for Faithlife development team (pasting into forum editor also changes small caps to lower case).

Observation: when my heart was choosing secret sin over loving God with everything in my being, my attempts to speak Truth in Love resulted in Truth being spoken from my perspective that failed to love others, especially my best human friend (who is now in heaven).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 928
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 4 2019 8:31 AM

Gavin, Pages is certainly a pain when pasting "Lord" with small caps from Logos. I think it's on the Pages end of things, not Logos.

I prefer Pages to Word, especially since I don't have to pay an annual subscription since Pages is an Apple product, so I go to the effort of manually replacing "Lord" with the small caps version.

This deficiency on Pages' part is by biggest annoyance with the app.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 5 2019 3:52 AM

Bill Moore:
This deficiency on Pages' part is by biggest annoyance with the app.

Bill - asking out of ignorance because I haven't tried it...

but could this menu be of any help with this problem?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 5 2019 10:24 AM

Mike Binks:

Bill Moore:
This deficiency on Pages' part is by biggest annoyance with the app.

Bill - asking out of ignorance because I haven't tried it...

but could this menu be of any help with this problem?

Unfortunately No. Also Pages has Transformations to UPPER CASE, lower case, and Capitalize (while lacking Small Caps).

Keep Smiling Smile 

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 5 2019 10:34 AM

Gavin Murphy:
"LORD" (in small caps) comes out as "Lord" when copying from the desktop app and the Web App. The only app it pastes correctly in is Microsoft Word. It does not work in Pages, Numbers, email, notes, texts, etc. 

Copy from 8.8 and paste into LibreOffice 6.3.2.1 text document has "LORD" (in Small Caps) on macOS 10.14.6 (dark mode)

LibreOffice is free (donation requested during download)

Keep Smiling Smile

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 5 2019 11:39 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Pages has Transformations to UPPER CASE, lower case, and Capitalize (while lacking Small Caps).

There's a subtle distinction between transformations and small caps. The transformations replace characters in the underlying text with their upper/lower case equivalent.

Small caps isn't transforming the text at all. It's more similar to a (bold or italic) style, where the appearance of the characters change due to a different font glyph being used for the same lowercase character.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Copy from 8.8 and paste into LibreOffice 6.3.2.1 text document has "LORD" (in Small Caps) on macOS 10.14.6 (dark mode)

Interesting! Thanks for the extra time and effort to determine that another app can parse the attributes that Logos sent to the clipboard.

Still a mystery as to whether the issue is with certain apps not recognizing a conventional way of representing small caps, or Logos using a different attribute that the app can't parse.

(iOS had that issue where there were two ways to programmatically select a font descriptor's small caps feature.)

Posts 27
Gavin Murphy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 7 2019 4:46 AM

Thanks all! 

I tried some of the free word processors (LibreOffice, Open Office, etc.) and they all support pasting small caps from Logos. Looks like Pages is the odd one out. 

I still prefer Word to Libre so I bought Office 2019 (no subscription). 

Thanks so much all! 

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