HELP PLEASE Discount Ending-- Zondervan Resource Recommendations? Expositor's Bible Commentary EBC vs NIV Application Commentary NIVAC? Differences??

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Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jun 19 2010 5:34 PM

Somewhere on the forums back when the Zondervan releases first came out someone posted a comment that the commentary in both sets matched almost word for word for some of the verses they were studying.

Questions:

  1.  Is there a big difference between the sets?
  2. Which would you consider to be better if I went with just one?
  3. Are they so different that you would recommend both?
  4. Which Zondervan sets or books do you consider must haves?

The Pradis Zondervan Discount is about to expire and I need to get my order together.
Thanks in advance. Smile

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2010 6:04 PM

Praiser:
the commentary in both sets

I don't recall that discussion. Which commentary are you referring to?

Praiser:
Which Zondervan sets or books do you consider must haves?

Not too many for my use. NIDNTT and NIDOTTE I'd consider the most important of all that Zondervan offered. I got a few other things but those two are the most significant.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2010 6:07 PM

Mark A. Smith:
I don't recall that discussion. Which commentary are you referring to?

It was the EBC and the NIVAC.

Thanks for the vote on NIDNTT and NIDOTTE.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2010 6:18 PM

Praiser:
It was the EBC and the NIVAC.

I don't have either, so I'll go from the little I know. Others with more intimate knowledge will hopefully chime in.

The EBC is dated but has good commentaries on a few Bible books. The new version is currently being published and hopefully will be available in Logos format some day.

The NIVAC Zondervan is currently offering doesn't cover the whole Bible as the EBC does.

I suppose if I had to choose I'd go with the NIVAC as being quite a bit more recent.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2010 10:05 PM

The NIVAC is completely different from the EBC. The discussion earlier was about EBC and abridged EBC. Basically abridged EBC is EBC without the footnotes and some other paragraphs. But the footnotes are more significant than you may think.

<edit>I found the original thread you're referring to. The confusion has come from the fact that the abridged EBC also goes under the title NIV Bible Commentary. But neither are any relation to NIVAC.</edit>

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Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2010 5:00 AM

Thanks Mark, that was the thead. I thought it was comparing to the NIVAC.

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2010 5:34 AM

Mark A. Smith:
I suppose if I had to choose I'd go with the NIVAC as being quite a bit more recent.

Just looking at the two, you are correct that the NIVAC is more recent and the NT commentaries have nearly as many pages as the entire EBC.
Is there a compelling reason to get either or would I be better off saving for ICC? I have NICOT/NICNT which I really enjoy.

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2010 5:46 AM

They're totally different commentaries, and it's difficult to compare the two. Neither can really be compared with ICC or NICNT. NIVAC makes a good claim to be unique. I'd encourage you to read samples from Zondervan's website to see whether they're what you need. Here's their blurb:

THE NIV APPLICATION COMMENTARY SERIES is unique. Most commentaries help us make the journey from our world back to the world of the Bible. They enable us to cross the barriers of time, culture, language, and geography that separate us from the biblical world. Yet they only offer a one-way ticket to the past and assume that we can somehow make the return journey on our own. Once they have explained the original meaning of a book or passage, these commentaries give us little or no help in exploring its contemporary significance. The information they offer is valuable, but the job is only half done.
Recently, a few commentaries have included some contemporary application as one of their goals. Yet that application is often sketchy or moralistic, and some volumes sound more like printed sermons than commentaries.

The primary goal of the NIV Application Commentary Series is to help you with the difficult but vital task of bringing an ancient message into a modern context. The series not only focuses on application as a finished product but also helps you think through the process of moving from the original meaning of a passage to its contemporary significance. These are commentaries, not popular expositions. They are works of reference, not devotional literature.
The format of the series is designed to achieve the goals of the series. Each passage is treated in three sections: Original Meaning, Bridging Contexts, and Contemporary Significance.

Original Meaning

THIS SECTION HELPS you understand the meaning of the biblical text in its original context. All of the elements of traditional exegesis-in concise form-are discussed here. These include the historical, literary, and cultural context of the passage. The authors discuss matters related to grammar and syntax and the meaning of biblical words. They also seek to explore the main ideas of the passage and how the biblical author develops those ideas.

After reading this section, you will understand the problems, questions, and concerns of the original audience and how the biblical author addressed those issues. This understanding is foundational to any legitimate application of the text today.

Bridging Contexts

THIS SECTION BUILDS a bridge between the world of the Bible and the world of today, between the original context and the contemporary context, by focusing on both the timely and timeless aspects of the text.

God's Word is timely. The authors of Scripture spoke to specific situations, problems, and questions. The author of Joshua encouraged the faith of his original readers by narrating the destruction of Jericho, a seemingly impregnable city, at the hands of an angry warrior God (Josh. 6). Paul warned the Galatians about the consequences of circumcision and the dangers of trying to be justified by law (Gal. 5:2-5). The author of Hebrews tried to convince his readers that Christ is superior to Moses, the Aaronic priests, and the Old Testament sacrifices. John urged his readers to "test the spirits" of those who taught a form of incipient Gnosticism (1 John 4:1-6). In each of these cases, the timely nature of Scripture enables us to hear God's Word in situations that were concrete rather than abstract.

Yet the timely nature of Scripture also creates problems. Our situations, difficulties, and questions are not always directly related to those faced by the people in the Bible. Therefore, God's word to them does not always seem relevant to us. For example, when was the last time someone urged you to be circumcised, claiming that it was a necessary part of justification? How many people today care whether Christ is superior to the Aaronic priests? And how can a "test" designed to expose incipient Gnosticism be of any value in a modern culture?

Fortunately, Scripture is not only timely but timeless. Just as God spoke to the original audience, so he still speaks to us through the pages of Scripture. Because we share a common humanity with the people of the Bible, we discover a universal dimension in the problems they faced and the solutions God gave them. The timeless nature of Scripture enables it to speak with power in every time and in every culture.

Those who fail to recognize that Scripture is both timely and timeless run into a host of problems. For example, those who are intimidated by timely books such as Hebrews, Galatians, or Deuteronomy might avoid reading them because they seem meaningless today. At the other extreme, those who are convinced of the timeless nature of Scripture, but who fail to discern its timely element, may "wax eloquent" about the Melchizedekian priesthood to a sleeping congregation.

The purpose of this section, therefore, is to help you discern what is timeless in the timely pages of the Bible-and what is not. For example, how do the holy wars of the Old Testament relate to the spiritual warfare of the New? If Paul's primary concern is not circumcision (as he tells us in Gal. 5:6), what is he concerned about? If discussions about the Aaronic priesthood or Melchizedek seem irrelevant today, what is of abiding value in these passages? If people try to "test the spirits" today with a test designed for a specific first-century heresy, what other biblical test might be more appropriate?

Yet this section does not merely uncover that which is timeless in a passage but also helps you to see how it is uncovered. The authors of the commentaries seek to take what is implicit in the text and make it explicit, to take a process that normally is intuitive and explain it in a logical, orderly fashion. How do we know that circumcision is not Paul's primary concern? What clues in the text or its context help us realize that Paul's real concern is at a deeper level?

Of course, those passages in which the historical distance between us and the original readers is greatest require a longer treatment. Conversely, those passages in which the historical distance is smaller or seemingly nonexistent require less attention.

One final clarification. Because this section prepares the way for discussing the contemporary significance of the passage, there is not always a sharp distinction or a clear break between this section and the one that follows. Yet when both sections are read together, you should have a strong sense of moving from the world of the Bible to the world of today.

Contemporary Significance

THIS SECTION ALLOWS the biblical message to speak with as much power today as it did when it was first written. How can you apply what you learned about Jerusalem, Ephesus, or Corinth to our present-day needs in Chicago, Los Angeles, or London? How can you take a message originally spoken in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic and communicate it clearly in our own language? How can you take the eternal truths originally spoken in a different time and culture and apply them to the similar-yet-different needs of our culture?

In order to achieve these goals, this section gives you help in several key areas.

First, it helps you identify contemporary situations, problems, or questions that are truly comparable to those faced by the original audience. Because contemporary situations are seldom identical to those faced in the first   p 10  century, you must seek situations that are analogous if your applications are to be relevant.

Second, this section explores a variety of contexts in which the passage might be applied today. You will look at personal applications, but you will also be encouraged to think beyond private concerns to the society and culture at large.

Third, this section will alert you to any problems or difficulties you might encounter in seeking to apply the passage. And if there are several legitimate ways to apply a passage (areas in which Christians disagree), the author will bring these to your attention and help you think through the issues involved.
In seeking to achieve these goals, the contributors to this series attempt to avoid two extremes. They avoid making such specific applications that the commentary might quickly become dated. They also avoid discussing the significance of the passage in such a general way that it fails to engage contemporary life and culture.

Above all, contributors to this series have made a diligent effort not to sound moralistic or preachy. The NIV Application Commentary Series does not seek to provide ready-made sermon materials but rather tools, ideas, and insights that will help you communicate God's Word with power. If we help you to achieve that goal, then we have fulfilled the purpose for this series.

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Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2010 10:59 AM

Praiser:

Mark A. Smith:
I suppose if I had to choose I'd go with the NIVAC as being quite a bit more recent.

Just looking at the two, you are correct that the NIVAC is more recent and the NT commentaries have nearly as many pages as the entire EBC.
Is there a compelling reason to get either or would I be better off saving for ICC? I have NICOT/NICNT which I really enjoy.

The NIVAC seems to vary in quality between volumes more than most series. Some are very good and some writers don't seem to be able to fit into the NIVAC format. Application is often the area that I am weak in.

Guthrie on Hebrews is excellent. The introduction is worth the price of the one volume.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2010 1:47 PM

Praiser:
I have NICOT/NICNT which I really enjoy.

I think if you have these you could well do without the EBC or the NIVAC.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2010 2:25 PM

Mark Barnes:
They're totally different commentaries, and it's difficult to compare the two. Neither can really be compared with ICC or NICNT. NIVAC makes a good claim to be unique. I'd encourage you to read samples from Zondervan's website to see whether they're what you need. Here's their blurb:

Edwin Bowden:

The NIVAC seems to vary in quality between volumes more than most series. Some are very good and some writers don't seem to be able to fit into the NIVAC format. Application is often the area that I am weak in.

Guthrie on Hebrews is excellent. The introduction is worth the price of the one volume.

 

Thanks for that information. I think I am leaning toward the NIVAC right now.

Any other Zondervan Books that stand out to you?

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2010 2:46 PM

Mark A. Smith:
The EBC is dated but has good commentaries on a few Bible books. The new version is currently being published and hopefully will be available in Logos format some day.

Thanks for pointing that out. I wasn't aware of that.

Mark A. Smith:

Praiser:
I have NICOT/NICNT which I really enjoy.

I think if you have these you could well do without the EBC or the NIVAC.

I could do without them, since I don't have them now.  I probably would continue without them if it were not for the 40% discount bringing them into the affordable range. I could not see paying the full price for them.

What I am noticing, is that five of the NIVAC are on the BestCommentaries.com "Best List" and many of the others are within the top four. It seems to be a different type of commentary -- pastoral, devotional, that may round out my collection.

Still thinking and praying about the commentaries though.

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2010 3:01 PM

What about the sets below? Any comments??  I have the Anchor Bible Dictionary and ISBE.

  • Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible (5 Vols.)
  • Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: New Testament (4 Vols.)
  • Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament (5 Vols.)
    Posts 8967
    RIP
    Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 7:38 AM

    Praiser:

    What about the sets below? Any comments??  I have the Anchor Bible Dictionary and ISBE.

  • Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible (5 Vols.)
  • Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: New Testament (4 Vols.)
  • Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament (5 Vols.)
  • These three are good. As for NIVAC, keep praying about it. It really is a useful resource that is uniquely done from other application commentaries.

    The expiring discount puts a little pressure on the decision. Remember the discount is not calculated automatically in an online order. It must be applied by a person on the other end of the phone. So I suppose the order has to be placed during regular business hours.

    Logos 7 Collectors Edition

    Posts 286
    Mathew Voth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 7:44 AM

    I used the discount to purchase all the major Zondervan sets; I assure you they are all awesome. You will not be disappointed with any of them. The Illustrated Commentaries are newer and really great, especially with the ability to copy the photos in L4.

    Zondervan definitley could have handled this better, but you cannot question their ability to produce excellent books!

    Posts 847
    Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 11:43 AM

    Thanks everyone. I was able to make the call and get my purchase done today in less than 5 minutes! WOW, no waiting and very prompt and professional service! Five star service all the way!

    I ended up getting all of the sets and a few of the single books, just short of the entire bundle, yet at great pricing. Big Smile

    Now the fun part of researching all the new resources. Stick out tongue It's going to be FUN!

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