Vulgar title on prepub

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 13 2019 5:47 PM

mab:

If you look at the author of the book and everything he does and writes about, it is most certainly political and partisan. Whyndell is simply reacting to it. Even the book's description reeks of it. 

The author seems to be more into politics than “evangelicalism.” He needs to repent and remove the beam from his eye before he can ”call people to repentance.”

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 13 2019 6:11 PM

DAL:
The author seems to be more into politics than “evangelicalism.”

Precisely. The same spiel comes from every nook and cranny in academia and the media and coating it with some "Christian" rhetoric doesn't make it either Christian or compelling.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 13 2019 6:13 PM

Can someone help me understand how we can deploy the wealth of tools we have in Logos to find all possible meanings for Eph 4:29; 5:4? 

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 13 2019 6:22 PM

DAL:
He needs to repent and remove the beam from his eye before he can ”call people to repentance.”

Conviction and repentance are the work of God.

We all need to repent of things, DAL, but might not due to pride, arrogance, or foolishness on our part. Perhaps we should turn our attention to the sin that God sees in us?

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 13 2019 6:26 PM

PetahChristian:

DAL:
He needs to repent and remove the beam from his eye before he can ”call people to repentance.”

Conviction and repentance are the work of God.

We all need to repent of things, DAL, but might not due to pride, arrogance, or foolishness on our part. Perhaps we should turn our attention to the sin that God sees in us?

That’s theology right there, so I won’t comment on it.

DAL

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 13 2019 6:46 PM

Rosie Perera:
I wasn't going to buy this, but my curiosity was piqued.

So does that mean you bought it? If so I'd love to hear a review from you.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 13 2019 11:48 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Rosie Perera:
I wasn't going to buy this, but my curiosity was piqued.

So does that mean you bought it? If so I'd love to hear a review from you.

Yes, I did buy it. That doesn't mean I've got time to read it any time soon. Will try to at least poke around in it and give you my thoughts, but no guarantees. I'm pretty busy these days.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 1:22 AM

DAL:
According to google and other places, the word included in this title is inappropriate for a scholarly work

Thanks for bringing this to my attention - without the discussion in this thread I would have never gone to Amazon to preview this book - and follow Rosie in picking it up. It's an expansion of an opinion piece that appeared in a Baptist publication. And no, the "white" of the title is not intended to refer to skin color per se. And no, I've always assumed badass referred to an animal.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Christopher Bucklin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 5:28 AM

Bruce Dunning:

This is a quote from the review:

"This book is a tough reading assignment. The language is intentionally and effectively provocative, rather than a clinical diagnosis with objective language and a clear protocol for addressing the disease. The book has no intention of offering either a happy ending or a how-to guide. Instead, it is a mirror with harsh lighting, intended to expose flaws with genuine righteous indignation. And it is unrelenting, because De La Torre anticipates the reader’s defense mechanism – an inclination to respond, “But I’m not like that!” – and shows how that response itself is characteristic of privilege."

This review sums up all I need to know. While I haven't read this particular title, I've read / listened to hundreds of arguments / provocateurs like this. It's just logically fallacious, agenda driven, sweeping generalizations, that are absolutely politically motivated.

Putting political parties aside, in the most general sense, there are two primary approaches to racism: 1. Disregard race, and treat all people the same, or 2. Focus on race, and treat people differently according to their race. This book clearly focuses on the latter. Treating people differently solely because of their race is, in my estimation, the basic premise of racism - and yes, treating white people differently, or telling them that they are guilty of something (white privilege) solely because they are white, is a racist premise (not to mention simply inaccurate). The anti-racism book is self-defeating.

My guess is that he will redefine 'racism' so that it can only be committed by groups of people whom he wants to be guilty of it - Again, a common tactic in the modern university.

Anyway, to anyone who reads it, feel free to post a review here. I'm sure it will elicit much discussion.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 6:06 AM

I will not -- by principle -- support monetarily an author that uses inappropriate language to be provocative, trendy, or marketing savvy. A Christian author who thinks he/she has something to say to the Church yet apparently does not understand that this is not appropriate is already showing that they lack the spiritual maturity to teach others. This is not to say that there could not be value in what is written (or said by some other provocative, "cool" preachers and teachers). However, God requires more from those who teach and that includes being examples to others. This clearly is a bad example.

I am not surprised however that people will actually do the reverse: buy the book precisely because of the attention its controversial title (and perhaps message) attracts. They prove this sort of tactics works and this is why authors will continue rather than be discouraged to do more of this. To each his own as we will all give an account for ourselves before the Lord (Matthew 16:27; Luke 6:46). 

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 6:25 AM

DAL:
That’s theology right there, so I won’t comment on it.

Well, Mr DAL, congrats and the tip of the hat (cowgirl).

Many (many) moons back, you 'accused' two forum ladies of some sort of robot-ish function. Little, you knew how close you were. After neural'ing the text (author, dating), and the theology (sequencing, dependencies), the next was whether it was possible to use the resulting nets to pattern religious behavior, and how would that work. 

And indeed, the concept worked with one exception .... 'politics'. You nailed it.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 6:29 AM

Christopher Bucklin:
1. Disregard race, and treat all people the same

As in ...

"Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him — a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all."


New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Col 3:9–11

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 6:37 AM

Francis:
I will not -- by principle -- support monetarily an author that uses inappropriate language to be provocative, trendy, or marketing savvy. A Christian author who thinks he/she has something to say to the Church yet apparently does not understand that this is not appropriate is already showing that they lack the spiritual maturity to teach others

Well said, Francis Yes

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 7:35 AM

DAL:
According to google and other places, the word included in this title is inappropriate for a scholarly work.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is that it takes both an author and a publisher to finalize a title like this. In this case it is Eerdmans. Generally I've always thought of Eerdmans as more of an academic publisher, so it makes me wonder whether this type of marketing/positioning has happened before or whether this is just an anomaly.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 8:23 AM

Bruce Dunning:

DAL:
According to google and other places, the word included in this title is inappropriate for a scholarly work.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is that it takes both an author and a publisher to finalize a title like this. In this case it is Eerdmans. Generally I've always thought of Eerdmans as more of an academic publisher, so it makes me wonder whether this type of marketing/positioning has happened before or whether this is just an anomaly.

Hm. As an ESL person this discussion is very interesting (it is very difficult to put swearwords and other colorful language into the right cultural context and register - especially since usage depends so much on the specific subgroups and may rapidly change). I looked up 'badass' in several E-E dictionaries and most just give something like informal. Nearly all dictionaries recognize it may be a positive description of somebody, along the lines of tough, uncompromising, impressive and powerful, not afraid to get into trouble and admired for this quality (some see it as a general positive qualifier to denote something as very good).

Only the American Heritage Dictionary (which I didn't know before and which may be more conservative than others, given its chosen self-definition) thinks the adjective to be vulgar (in their opinion: vulgar slang). It may very well be that the word started to be used in the 1950s/60s as a slang word, but changed meaning - at least for those who use it actively - since then.

I personally don't think the book is meant to be academic / scholarly - it seems to aim at lay readers (and the publisher's decription "This is the book that everybody who cares about contemporary American Christianity will want to read." says so very clearly), in fact I checked twice that this is a Logos edition, not a FL eBook, since that's the shop I would have expected it to be sold.

Actually the subtitle leaves me puzzled - I'd expect authors like Doug Wilson or Mark Driscoll to argue for the return of "badass christianity", not somebody who fights against "white privilege". But then again, such things may be too cultural specific to the current US culture for me to understand from afar.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 8:46 AM

Still waiting for a review from someone who's actually read it.

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MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 8:54 AM

Francis:
I will not -- by principle -- support monetarily an author that uses inappropriate language to be provocative, trendy, or marketing savvy. A Christian author who thinks he/she has something to say to the Church yet apparently does not understand that this is not appropriate is already showing that they lack the spiritual maturity to teach others.

Yes

The title and subtitle of this book suggests to me that the author almost certainly lacks the kind of substantive reasoning that would cause the premise of his book to stand on its own merit. It seems to me like a desire by the author and/or publisher is to profit off of the hyper-politicized atmosphere of these times. It certainly is in vogue today to attack "white privilege" and it seems that politicians and authors/publishers are more than happy to profit by attacking it. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 12:17 PM

Christopher Bucklin:
Putting political parties aside, in the most general sense, there are two primary approaches to racism:

If you read a bit of the book - a page or two of the Amazon preview - you would know that your judgment is completely off base. The book is not about racism, it is about a church that has lost it's moral compass. I learned in high school to avoid a "yard mouth" -- one I had stuck three feet in. And I am concerned about our culture which encourages the making and sharing of judgments without sufficient information - think real crime shows with their pop surveys.

Christopher Bucklin:
My guess is that he will redefine 'racism' so that it can only be committed by groups of people whom he wants to be guilty of it - Again, a common tactic in the modern university.

Thank you for admitting this is a guess. The guess is incorrect in that the topic is not racism. The book was commissioned by the publisher based on the reaction to an opinion piece that the author wrote. There is no reason to bring anti-academia into the discussion as it is a red herring.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 12:35 PM

The essay that this book is an expansion on is available at https://www.newcityeastlake.com/letters/an-essay-on-the-death-of-christianity-in-the-u-s 

MWW:
The title and subtitle of this book suggests to me that the author almost certainly lacks the kind of substantive reasoning that would cause the premise of his book to stand on its own merit.

Given the lack of substantive reasoning in this thread . . . oh, no, Denise's neural network tells me not to finish this thought. I've checked a variety of linguistic sources and find that "badass" is generally deemed "informal" so should I assume a similar reaction to a title such as Ain't Gonna Let Nobody Turn Me Around: Stories of Contemplation and Justice by Therese Taylor-Stinson ? or should I be very naughty an assume the eisegesis shown in this thread is indicative of the participant's approach to ... of, no, Denise's neural network tells me not to finish this thought either. Yes, I'm playing a bit of the provocateur, but I am seriously so aghast at the thread which illustrates an incredible ability to judge without any attempt to have any substance upon which to judge ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 1:32 PM

Provocative titles are used on academic works all the time. I'd say the title would offend certain tastes, but wouldn't call it vulgar.

I'd be tempted to buy it if I had more time to read.

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