New Android Minimum Version Coming in January

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Posts 218
LogosEmployee
Daniel Di Bartolo | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 18 2019 11:12 AM

Starting in January 2020, our minimum Android version will be 6.0 and above. The vast majority of our users have devices running 6.0 and above, and they will be unaffected by this change.

What does this mean if I'm running Android 5.1?

After 1/1/20 you won’t be able to install our app is you are running 5.1 or below.

If you're running 5.1 or below (not many of you are), you will still likely be able to use the app on or after 1/1 but it will eventually stop working or become unusable.

What does that mean for the rest of us?

Nothing. Your app will continue to function as always. Over time, your user experience will actually improve as we are able to develop features and improvements that previously were limited by older operating systems

For those running 5.1 or below on an older device: we're sorry that we can no longer support your operating system. We do our best to support versions for as long as we can, but sometimes we have to make a call like this so that we can continue to provide a great app to the majority of users. 

There are some great, low-cost devices out there that run 6 and above and I'm sure people in the forums can provide you with some great recommendations in your price range.

Retailers often run sales on devices during the holiday shopping season. If your device is running 5.1 we encourage you to keep your eyes open for a new device.

Posts 3354
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 11:29 AM

Practically speaking... no more 7th generation Fire tablets and earlier. That's inconvenient for me. But Android 5.1 is quite old, even though my 7th gen Fire tablet is not.

Posts 5257
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 11:36 AM

So rather than spend your money with FL during Black Friday / Christmas sales, spend it on a new device.

That said well dome FL on giving people advanced notice. Yes

Posts 1578
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 18 2019 12:15 PM

I think you mean January 2020, not 2019.

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

Posts 2335
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 19 2019 1:53 PM

I just got a new iPad but I have an HD 10 Kindle Fire 7th Gen. My timing apparently was good but I still use the Kindle Fire a lot. It's not even 2 years old so is a bit disappointing for Logos. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 2462
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 19 2019 2:23 PM

mab:

I just got a new iPad but I have an HD 10 Kindle Fire 7th Gen. My timing apparently was good but I still use the Kindle Fire a lot. It's not even 2 years old so is a bit disappointing for Logos. 

Unfortunately it is not the age of the physical device but the age of the design of the device.  

Posts 2335
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 19 2019 10:48 PM

David Ames:
Unfortunately it is not the age of the physical device but the age of the design of the device.  

Probably more the age of the OS they designed into it. The unit is quite decent. Knowing what I now do, I won't ever succumb to that mistake again. Fortunately, it was dirt cheap and still very useful and functional. Logos is tied to the OS.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 54
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 12:18 AM

mab:

David Ames:
Unfortunately it is not the age of the physical device but the age of the design of the device.  

Probably more the age of the OS they designed into it. The unit is quite decent. Knowing what I now do, I won't ever succumb to that mistake again. Fortunately, it was dirt cheap and still very useful and functional. Logos is tied to the OS.

Amazon Kindle devices are roughly 4 years behind on both hardware and (operating system) software fronts.

If I were forced to purchase a Kindle I would only choose the Fire HD 10 (9th Generation) which runs Amazon's FireOS equivalent of Android 9.0. In my opinion it's still a junk device cobbled together from outdated hardware but at least it's running FireOS 7.3.1.1 (i.e. Amazon's Android 9.0 equivalent). Just my take on things.

Posts 1428
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 25 2019 10:06 AM

Daniel,

With your announcement regarding Android 6.0 as the oldest version Faithlife will support after January 20th, this will make for the second time I've purchased a Kindle Fire and only got two years or less out of it before Faithlife stopped supporting the OS used by the Fire.  Sad  While Faithlife markets the mobile app as being Fire compatible, I can only assume that as quickly as the Fire's seem to become too obsolete for Faithlife to support, that Faithlife prefers customers use tablets running the native Android OS.

But I'd appreciate a clarification regarding continued use of my Fire.  I have a 7th generation Fire which I understand runs the equivalent of Android 5.1.  If so, although I will no longer be able to "install" the mobile app after January 1st, if I'm content to continue working with the mobile app version currently on my Fire, will I be able to continue downloading my library resources to it for reading, highlighting, and notes, and syncing the device with my computer?

Posts 218
LogosEmployee
Daniel Di Bartolo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 25 2019 2:00 PM

Hi Rick, 

Thanks for reaching out. I'm sorry that you're in this position, I know it would be frustrating to have this happen to two different Kindle devices. We make a decision on what operating systems to drop support for very carefully-- the main metric we look at is the % of our user base running the OS, then look at the cost of maintaining that OS compared to others. We try to officially support operating systems for as long as we can, but we do run into cases like this were it makes sense for us to drop it. In those cases we can't offer support, bug fixes, ect. 

While we can't guarantee that the Logos app will work on your device after Jan 20th, I can tell you that we do have users running "unsupported" versions, in some cases for a good long while, doing the things you mentioned above. I'm sure there are some here in the forums here that can attest to that in some cases, but not all. 

In one sense I'm being intentionally vague because I don't want to make a promise we can't keep, that Logos will continue to work on your unsupported device. But at the same time you should know that it's unlikely to stop working immediately after Jan 20. 

Ultimately I recommend that you keep your eye out for a supported device, but I know that's not possible for everyone. 

Hope that answer helps.

Posts 54
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 8:27 AM

Rick Ausdahl:

Daniel,

With your announcement regarding Android 6.0 as the oldest version Faithlife will support after January 20th, this will make for the second time I've purchased a Kindle Fire and only got two years or less out of it before Faithlife stopped supporting the OS used by the Fire.  Sad  While Faithlife markets the mobile app as being Fire compatible, I can only assume that as quickly as the Fire's seem to become too obsolete for Faithlife to support, that Faithlife prefers customers use tablets running the native Android OS.

But I'd appreciate a clarification regarding continued use of my Fire.  I have a 7th generation Fire which I understand runs the equivalent of Android 5.1.  If so, although I will no longer be able to "install" the mobile app after January 1st, if I'm content to continue working with the mobile app version currently on my Fire, will I be able to continue downloading my library resources to it for reading, highlighting, and notes, and syncing the device with my computer?

Hi Rick,

Are you satisfied with the answer that you've be given? Just curious.

Posts 1428
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 9:05 AM

T-Bone:

Rick Ausdahl:

Daniel,

With your announcement regarding Android 6.0 as the oldest version Faithlife will support after January 20th, this will make for the second time I've purchased a Kindle Fire and only got two years or less out of it before Faithlife stopped supporting the OS used by the Fire.  Sad  While Faithlife markets the mobile app as being Fire compatible, I can only assume that as quickly as the Fire's seem to become too obsolete for Faithlife to support, that Faithlife prefers customers use tablets running the native Android OS.

But I'd appreciate a clarification regarding continued use of my Fire.  I have a 7th generation Fire which I understand runs the equivalent of Android 5.1.  If so, although I will no longer be able to "install" the mobile app after January 1st, if I'm content to continue working with the mobile app version currently on my Fire, will I be able to continue downloading my library resources to it for reading, highlighting, and notes, and syncing the device with my computer?

Hi Rick,

Are you satisfied with the answer that you've be given? Just curious.

Well, I'll start off by saying I understand the position Daniel is in, so while I can't say I'm satisfied with the answer, I also feel the need to cut Daniel some slack.

However, since Logos resources are supposed to be independent of the Logos engine in the sense that resources purchased long ago are supposed to continue working with new Logos engines, I was hoping Faithlife could tell me if my resources would continue to work for basic reading, highlighting, notes, and syncing functions.  That's all I do on the mobile platform and I was hoping that if I was content to keep working with the current mobile version for the immediate future, that Faithlife would be able to say yea or nay to my question regarding the continued working of those basic functions. 

Posts 54
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 10:37 AM

Rick Ausdahl:
Well, I'll start off by saying I understand the position Daniel is in, so while I can't say I'm satisfied with the answer, I also feel the need to cut Daniel some slack.


Rick, thanks for your response.

Daniel told you the truth and I back up what he said 100%. There isn't any need for you to cut him any slack because he simply told you how things are. Someone speaking the truth doesn't have any slack to be cut.

Rick Ausdahl:
However, since Logos resources are supposed to be independent of the Logos engine in the sense that resources purchased long ago are supposed to continue working with new Logos engines, I was hoping Faithlife could tell me if my resources would continue to work for basic reading, highlighting, notes, and syncing functions.

Logos resources (not all, but some) are updated daily. Corrections, additions, new features, etc. may require updated display drivers on the mobile apps. If you are running an old unsupported version of the mobile app your resources may not work any longer. Reading, highlighting, notes, syncing, etc. may stop working. This has been documented dozens of times. 

Rick Ausdahl:
That's all I do on the mobile platform and I was hoping that if I was content to keep working with the current mobile version for the immediate future, that Faithlife would be able to say yea or nay to my question regarding the continued working of those basic functions. 


The answer to your question is "nay". The current mobile version is what Faithlife keeps shipping every few weeks. Bugs fixes, updated display drivers, new features, etc.

In my opinion if may be more beneficial for you to go back to using a paper Bible. Or, purchase a device that isn't 4 years behind the times.

Please see https://community.logos.com/forums/p/186406/1076145.aspx#1076145 .

Please do not purchase any Kindle device that runs anything less than Android 9.0 (i.e. FireOS 7.3.1.1).

Posts 2420
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 2:22 PM

By the way, end of support does not mean that the app will stop working immediately.

My Android 2.3 device stopped connecting to the Logos servers only after the TLS update last year. Up to that point, it was able to download and display about 95% of all resources. That was more than four years after the end of support.

(Just remember Murphy's Law. The resources you need are likely to be in those 5% that can't be displayed...)

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 1428
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 27 2019 5:50 AM

T-Bone:

Rick Ausdahl:
Well, I'll start off by saying I understand the position Daniel is in, so while I can't say I'm satisfied with the answer, I also feel the need to cut Daniel some slack.


Rick, thanks for your response.

Daniel told you the truth and I back up what he said 100%. There isn't any need for you to cut him any slack because he simply told you how things are. Someone speaking the truth doesn't have any slack to be cut.

Rick Ausdahl:
However, since Logos resources are supposed to be independent of the Logos engine in the sense that resources purchased long ago are supposed to continue working with new Logos engines, I was hoping Faithlife could tell me if my resources would continue to work for basic reading, highlighting, notes, and syncing functions.

Logos resources (not all, but some) are updated daily. Corrections, additions, new features, etc. may require updated display drivers on the mobile apps. If you are running an old unsupported version of the mobile app your resources may not work any longer. Reading, highlighting, notes, syncing, etc. may stop working. This has been documented dozens of times. 

Rick Ausdahl:
That's all I do on the mobile platform and I was hoping that if I was content to keep working with the current mobile version for the immediate future, that Faithlife would be able to say yea or nay to my question regarding the continued working of those basic functions. 


The answer to your question is "nay". The current mobile version is what Faithlife keeps shipping every few weeks. Bugs fixes, updated display drivers, new features, etc.

In my opinion if may be more beneficial for you to go back to using a paper Bible. Or, purchase a device that isn't 4 years behind the times.

Please see https://community.logos.com/forums/p/186406/1076145.aspx#1076145 .

Please do not purchase any Kindle device that runs anything less than Android 9.0 (i.e. FireOS 7.3.1.1).

T-Bone, I'm a bit confused by your response.  I found it curious on several counts.  I hadn't planned on submitting any reply to Daniel.  The only reason I posted anything else is that I saw your question at the same time I saw Daniel's reply, so out of courtesy, I tried to answer the question that you asked me.  I could see no reason you would ask me if I was satisfied with Daniel's reply unless you weren't satisfied with it yourself and/or at least doubted that I should be satisfied.  So my initial comment about cutting Daniel some slack was made on your behalf and for your sake.  I already understood and accepted what Daniel said--I don't think I implied in even the slightest way that he wasn't telling the truth.

I then went on (again as a courtesy to you) to answer the question you asked me.  I don't at all understand the relevance of your opinion that I might be better off going back to a paper Bible, as that's not what I use the mobile app for and I never mentioned using it for that.  The Logos resources I use it for are primarily basic text resources like Walton's "Lost World" series, historical backgrounds, and the Zondervan counterpoint series.  It's just reading, highlighting, and making an occasional note.  Any study or research I might wish to pursue as a result of reading on my mobile device, is done on my computer.

Regarding your comment that I not buy a device that's 4 years behind the times, I'll respond by saying it was the current Kindle Fire model when I bought it and Faithlife includes the Fires as viable devices when marketing the mobile app.  To my knowledge, they issue no warnings (nor make statements of any kind for that matter) in their marketing, that Kindle devices are "behind the times" {even when new}, so people using them should be prepared to replace their devices far more often than people using other Android devices.  If Kindles are "behind the times" from the get-go and this will render them obsolete much faster than non-Kindle devices in regard to the mobile app, I think it would be helpful to point that out in the marketing. 

Posts 54
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 27 2019 8:59 PM

Rick Ausdahl:
Regarding your comment that I not buy a device that's 4 years behind the times, I'll respond by saying it was the current Kindle Fire model when I bought it and Faithlife includes the Fires as viable devices when marketing the mobile app.  To my knowledge, they issue no warnings (nor make statements of any kind for that matter) in their marketing, that Kindle devices are "behind the times" {even when new}, so people using them should be prepared to replace their devices far more often than people using other Android devices.  If Kindles are "behind the times" from the get-go and this will render them obsolete much faster than non-Kindle devices in regard to the mobile app, I think it would be helpful to point that out in the marketing. 

Kindle Fire devices are only supported as long as they also run the minimum Android version stated by Faithlife. The main factor that determines whether or not Faithlife apps will run on Kindle Fire devices is the Android version on the device and not what year the device was purchased from Amazon. (Obviously, whether or not Faithlife decides to update their marketing is up to them).

For example, last year (2018) Amazon was selling brand new Kindle Fire devices running Fire OS 5.x which is equivalent to Android 5.1.1 (released in November, 2014). Thus, Amazon was selling brand new Kindle Fire devices with a four year old operating system. When Faithlife support drops on Jan 1, 2020 for Android 5.x it will have been supported for over five years but four of those were already "used up" (so to speak).

I feel sorry for anyone that purchased one of those Kindle Fire devices last year since Amazon isn't forthcoming on the Android API support; you can find it if you dig around but it's nowhere to be found on the purchase page.

This year (2019) Amazon is selling brand new Kindle Fire devices running Fire OS 6.x which is equivalent to Android 7.1 (released in October, 2016). So, another three year old operating system that Amazon will continue to sell on their Fire devices in 2020. It's a shame.

With the exception of the Fire HD 10 (9th Generation) which runs the equivalent of Android 9.0, the operating systems Amazon installs on their Kindle Fire devices are years behind - regardless of when you purchase them. To my knowledge Amazon is the only vendor (other than small E-Ink device vendors) that sells brand new devices running ancient versions of Android and that's something everyone should be aware of.

If you decide to stick with Kindle Fire devices and purchase anything other than the new Fire HD 10 you may be disappointed again in a couple years when Faithlife drops support for Android 7.1.

Posts 54
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 27 2019 8:59 PM

Rick Ausdahl:
Regarding your comment that I not buy a device that's 4 years behind the times, I'll respond by saying it was the current Kindle Fire model when I bought it and Faithlife includes the Fires as viable devices when marketing the mobile app.  To my knowledge, they issue no warnings (nor make statements of any kind for that matter) in their marketing, that Kindle devices are "behind the times" {even when new}, so people using them should be prepared to replace their devices far more often than people using other Android devices.  If Kindles are "behind the times" from the get-go and this will render them obsolete much faster than non-Kindle devices in regard to the mobile app, I think it would be helpful to point that out in the marketing. 

Kindle Fire devices are only supported as long as they also run the minimum Android version stated by Faithlife. The main factor that determines whether or not Faithlife apps will run on Kindle Fire devices is the Android version on the device and not what year the device was purchased from Amazon. (Obviously, whether or not Faithlife decides to update their marketing is up to them).

For example, last year (2018) Amazon was selling brand new Kindle Fire devices running Fire OS 5.x which is equivalent to Android 5.1.1 (released in November, 2014). Thus, Amazon was selling brand new Kindle Fire devices with a four year old operating system. When Faithlife support drops on Jan 1, 2020 for Android 5.x it will have been supported for over five years but four of those were already "used up" (so to speak).

I feel sorry for anyone that purchased one of those Kindle Fire devices last year since Amazon isn't forthcoming on the Android API support; you can find it if you dig around but it's nowhere to be found on the purchase page.

This year (2019) Amazon is selling brand new Kindle Fire devices running Fire OS 6.x which is equivalent to Android 7.1 (released in October, 2016). So, another three year old operating system that Amazon will continue to sell on their Fire devices in 2020. It's a shame.

With the exception of the Fire HD 10 (9th Generation) which runs the equivalent of Android 9.0, the operating systems Amazon installs on their Kindle Fire devices are years behind - regardless of when you purchase them. To my knowledge Amazon is the only vendor (other than small E-Ink device vendors) that sells brand new devices running ancient versions of Android and that's something everyone should be aware of.

If you decide to stick with Kindle Fire devices and purchase anything other than the new Fire HD 10 you may be disappointed again in a couple years when Faithlife drops support for Android 7.1.

Posts 54
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 27 2019 8:59 PM

Rick Ausdahl:
Regarding your comment that I not buy a device that's 4 years behind the times, I'll respond by saying it was the current Kindle Fire model when I bought it and Faithlife includes the Fires as viable devices when marketing the mobile app.  To my knowledge, they issue no warnings (nor make statements of any kind for that matter) in their marketing, that Kindle devices are "behind the times" {even when new}, so people using them should be prepared to replace their devices far more often than people using other Android devices.  If Kindles are "behind the times" from the get-go and this will render them obsolete much faster than non-Kindle devices in regard to the mobile app, I think it would be helpful to point that out in the marketing. 

Kindle Fire devices are only supported as long as they also run the minimum Android version stated by Faithlife. The main factor that determines whether or not Faithlife apps will run on Kindle Fire devices is the Android version on the device and not what year the device was purchased from Amazon. (Obviously, whether or not Faithlife decides to update their marketing is up to them).

For example, last year (2018) Amazon was selling brand new Kindle Fire devices running Fire OS 5.x which is equivalent to Android 5.1.1 (released in November, 2014). Thus, Amazon was selling brand new Kindle Fire devices with a four year old operating system. When Faithlife support drops on Jan 1, 2020 for Android 5.x it will have been supported for over five years but four of those were already "used up" (so to speak).

I feel sorry for anyone that purchased one of those Kindle Fire devices last year since Amazon isn't forthcoming on the Android API support; you can find it if you dig around but it's nowhere to be found on the purchase page.

This year (2019) Amazon is selling brand new Kindle Fire devices running Fire OS 6.x which is equivalent to Android 7.1 (released in October, 2016). So, another three year old operating system that Amazon will continue to sell on their Fire devices in 2020. It's a shame.

With the exception of the Fire HD 10 (9th Generation) which runs the equivalent of Android 9.0, the operating systems Amazon installs on their Kindle Fire devices are years behind - regardless of when you purchase them. To my knowledge Amazon is the only vendor (other than small E-Ink device vendors) that sells brand new devices running ancient versions of Android and that's something everyone should be aware of.

If you decide to stick with Kindle Fire devices and purchase anything other than the new Fire HD 10 you may be disappointed again in a couple years when Faithlife drops support for Android 7.1.

Posts 23
Paul Lehr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2019 7:09 AM

As the owner of of an Fire 10 7th generation, I have found that I mostly use app.logos.com on my Fire anyway. It seems to work well for what I normally want to do and I am guessing that it will continue to work well on this device well after the app will not work due to this Android issue. I know that you can't download resources when using the web app, but as long as I have cell service on my cell phone with a personal hot spot, I'm good with the web app most anywhere that I am. And the web app just keeps keeps getting to work more like the desktop software all the time. So all is not lost for us older Fire users.

Posts 3354
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 20 2019 3:59 PM

Paul Lehr:
As the owner of of an Fire 10 7th generation, I have found that I mostly use app.logos.com on my Fire anyway. It seems to work well for what I normally want to do and I am guessing that it will continue to work well on this device well after the app will not work due to this Android issue. I know that you can't download resources when using the web app, but as long as I have cell service on my cell phone with a personal hot spot, I'm good with the web app most anywhere that I am. And the web app just keeps keeps getting to work more like the desktop software all the time. So all is not lost for us older Fire users.

Good points. I'll have to try that once it stops working on my 7th gen Fire tablet.

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