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Posts 1081
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 11 2019 6:29 AM

"Unable to distribute Coaching Life-Changing Small Group Leaders: A Comprehensive Guide for Developing Leaders of Groups and Teams to your country."

Interesting  ... is there any book that the Ebooks can sell in the UK? It often feels that nothing is for sale.

When I started the Journey with Logos it was on the basis of a integrated library ... but here is yet another resource that Logos cannot sell to me despite carrying it in stock. It is available in the UK from other suppliers ... it is available to Logos ... it just seems that once again Logos are not negotiating the terms that allow customers to access the resources that they need. I can even get it on Kindle (!!!).

The product description does not seem to mention any restriction is distribution ... is my frustration simply an error at the checkout?

Is there a way of Logos website filtering out resources that cannot be sold?

Thanks.

2010 17" MBP with High Sierra, iPad4 with iOS10.

Posts 5321
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 11 2019 2:08 PM

Martin Folley:
Interesting  ... is there any book that the Ebooks can sell in the UK? It often feels that nothing is for sale.

Martin Folley:
It is available in the UK from other suppliers ... it is available to Logos ... it just seems that once again Logos are not negotiating the terms that allow customers to access the resources that they need. I can even get it on Kindle (!!!).

Martin Folley:
Is there a way of Logos website filtering out resources that cannot be sold?

If they did that Martin all of us international customers would find out the truth of how much of their catalogue of e-books is actually unavailable to us.

Posts 10678
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2019 12:35 AM

DIsciple II:

Martin Folley:
Interesting  ... is there any book that the Ebooks can sell in the UK? It often feels that nothing is for sale.

Martin Folley:
It is available in the UK from other suppliers ... it is available to Logos ... it just seems that once again Logos are not negotiating the terms that allow customers to access the resources that they need. I can even get it on Kindle (!!!).

Martin Folley:
Is there a way of Logos website filtering out resources that cannot be sold?

If they did that Martin all of us international customers would find out the truth of how much of their catalogue of e-books is actually unavailable to us.

I don't think they want to keep it a secret. The math is pretty easy

This book is a Zondervan book. We have been informed by FL in this forum that HCCP, the owner of both Nelson and Zondervan, refuses to sell eBooks to non-US customers. This mean that the two largest publisher offerings with roughly 6300 eBooks are not available to us for this reason (out of some 38,300 in the eBook store). A certain percentage of IVP Books is not available, too, plus some Publishers don't allow single books for various reasons (such as the current FBOM). My estimate would be a total 7.000 from the eBook store, i.e. 18.2%. Since the offferings nowadays show classic eBooks and Lexham books that come in Logos format, some might rather use the edition:eBook format. This is not (yet?) available as a facet, but logos.com gives a number of books that are available (only) through the eBook store: 30,700, which makes 22.8% unavailable. 

In other words, about every fifth book is not available for international customers, so the feeling that "nothing" is there is wrong. But is is a percentage much too large to not be a nuisance. I think, if we look into different genres, the math doesn't change much. Zondervan & Nelson come out at the top or near the top of the publishers listing and as a significant percentage. There is enough of other publishers, especially in the non-fiction genres - in fact I wish for a negative facet to just exclude this nuisance. Everybody should buy from Abingdon, Wipf&Stock and B&H instead.     

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 1081
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2019 1:00 AM

Thank you for the Maths. 20% is quite a lot ... and I still cannot fathom why 'only available in the US' is not a clear part of the product description. At least change frustrated customers to disappointed customers ... 

NB.Mick:
refuses to sell eBooks to non-US customers

The confusing bi is that they are available as eBooks ... outside of the US ... Amazon/Kindle have them ... so why does Zondervan say no to Logos but yes to Amazon?

2010 17" MBP with High Sierra, iPad4 with iOS10.

Posts 18876
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2019 1:37 AM

Martin Folley:
The confusing bi is that they are available as eBooks ... outside of the US ... Amazon/Kindle have them ... so why does Zondervan say no to Logos but yes to Amazon?

Probably because Amazon has more clout. Way more overseas sales, so it's worth Zondervan's while to negotiate a deal with them.

Posts 10678
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2019 2:00 AM

Martin Folley:

NB.Mick:
refuses to sell eBooks to non-US customers

The confusing bi is that they are available as eBooks ... outside of the US ... Amazon/Kindle have them ... so why does Zondervan say no to Logos but yes to Amazon?

Well, Amazon is Amazon, so the publishers might be much more flexible with their demands, given the size of the business they'd be willing to lose. On the other hand, from FLs explanation here it seems that Amazon is to a large extent giving HCCP what they want: localized stores in localized currency selling at a local eBook price list - or at least with reference to such a local list. 

If you find a smaller eBook store (at best catering to the Christian audience, but this seems to be optional as HCCP seemingly does this across their imprints), selling HCCP eBooks to international customers indiscriminately, i.e. same price, in US dollars, then you have an argument that even might help FLs negotiation. Other than that, it might help to NOT buy the same Zondervan book in Kindle (since to the publisher this probably brings the same royalty, and they save the hassle of working with FL), but to buy a comparable book from another publisher in the FL eBook store, and if you want to have that specific book, go for a royalty-free used book in paper.     

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 5321
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2019 3:02 AM

While your maths is admirable I don’t agree FL makes it easy for us to get a true picture of the problem or want us to have a true picture.  You have had to make estimates and we can’t exclude the ‘Mills and Boon’ Novels along with other books that have not real connection to  bible study. I think your numbers are understated but that’s just my opinion and neithe of us really know the answer.

And the issue is not that they don’t want to sell to Non-US customers as they do so through other eBook vendor, the issue is with the way FL do things - FL have admitted the problem lies with them. They invested money in these new web sites - released them into production im a less than complete state and did not do their homework  to ensure they were playing in a way that met the requirements of these publishers in order to do business. FL has let all of their customers down with the poor searching options they have dished up in these supposed to be improved websites and let their international customers down by not being able to meet contract requirements of these publishers. 


NB.Mick:

DIsciple II:

Martin Folley:
Interesting  ... is there any book that the Ebooks can sell in the UK? It often feels that nothing is for sale.

Martin Folley:
It is available in the UK from other suppliers ... it is available to Logos ... it just seems that once again Logos are not negotiating the terms that allow customers to access the resources that they need. I can even get it on Kindle (!!!).

Martin Folley:
Is there a way of Logos website filtering out resources that cannot be sold?

If they did that Martin all of us international customers would find out the truth of how much of their catalogue of e-books is actually unavailable to us.

I don't think they want to keep it a secret. The math is pretty easy

This book is a Zondervan book. We have been informed by FL in this forum that HCCP, the owner of both Nelson and Zondervan, refuses to sell eBooks to non-US customers. This mean that the two largest publisher offerings with roughly 6300 eBooks are not available to us for this reason (out of some 38,300 in the eBook store). A certain percentage of IVP Books is not available, too, plus some Publishers don't allow single books for various reasons (such as the current FBOM). My estimate would be a total 7.000 from the eBook store, i.e. 18.2%. Since the offferings nowadays show classic eBooks and Lexham books that come in Logos format, some might rather use the edition:eBook format. This is not (yet?) available as a facet, but logos.com gives a number of books that are available (only) through the eBook store: 30,700, which makes 22.8% unavailable. 

In other words, about every fifth book is not available for international customers, so the feeling that "nothing" is there is wrong. But is is a percentage much too large to not be a nuisance. I think, if we look into different genres, the math doesn't change much. Zondervan & Nelson come out at the top or near the top of the publishers listing and as a significant percentage. There is enough of other publishers, especially in the non-fiction genres - in fact I wish for a negative facet to just exclude this nuisance. Everybody should buy from Abingdon, Wipf&Stock and B&H instead.     

Posts 18876
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2019 3:35 AM

DIsciple II:
FL have admitted the problem lies with them. They invested money in these new web sites - released them into production im a less than complete state and did not do their homework  to ensure they were playing in a way that met the requirements of these publishers in order to do business. FL has let all of their customers down with the poor searching options they have dished up in these supposed to be improved websites and let their international customers down by not being able to meet contract requirements of these publishers. 

Surprise

Posts 2574
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2019 6:54 AM

NB.Mick:
Other than that, it might help to NOT buy the same Zondervan book in Kindle (since to the publisher this probably brings the same royalty, and they save the hassle of working with FL)

That is very doubtful.

Bob has said a couple of times that FL only makes a few cents on each ebook they sell, and that the ebooks branch is therefore not very profitable.

On the other hand, Amazon retains up to 65% of a Kindle sale. Maybe the contarcts that the large publishers negotiate are a bit better, but the standard contract is available publicly on the web, including the standard royalty rates, for everyone to look up. Worst case, publisher and author share 35% of the sale price among themselves.

Still, many publishers have their own ebook stores, which might be the second best option to go for after the Logos/ebook edition, since the publisher and author can retain a whopping 100% of the sale price. (Zondervan does not have this option though...)

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 1276
Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2019 8:14 AM

NB.Mick:

Martin Folley:

NB.Mick:
refuses to sell eBooks to non-US customers

The confusing bi is that they are available as eBooks ... outside of the US ... Amazon/Kindle have them ... so why does Zondervan say no to Logos but yes to Amazon?

Well, Amazon is Amazon, so the publishers might be much more flexible with their demands, given the size of the business they'd be willing to lose. On the other hand, from FLs explanation here it seems that Amazon is to a large extent giving HCCP what they want: localized stores in localized currency selling at a local eBook price list - or at least with reference to such a local list. 

If you find a smaller eBook store (at best catering to the Christian audience, but this seems to be optional as HCCP seemingly does this across their imprints), selling HCCP eBooks to international customers indiscriminately, i.e. same price, in US dollars, then you have an argument that even might help FLs negotiation. Other than that, it might help to NOT buy the same Zondervan book in Kindle (since to the publisher this probably brings the same royalty, and they save the hassle of working with FL), but to buy a comparable book from another publisher in the FL eBook store, and if you want to have that specific book, go for a royalty-free used book in paper.     

Although HarperCollins seems to want Faithlife ebooks to be sold in localised currency, I am able to buy their books through another software company (owned by HarperCollins) in Dollars. Obviously a case of one rule for them, another rule for Faithlife. I'm sure they end up missing out as I'm much more discerning when buying books from this other provider.

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