Uploaded Media Availability

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DAL | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 14 2019 3:55 AM

I uploaded some pictures to the user’s media area and everything showed fine; but then when I got to the church building (no internet) my media place was empty.  

If I uploaded my pictures, then why do I need internet for them to appear? 

DAL

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 15 2019 3:04 PM

DAL:
If I uploaded my pictures, then why do I need internet for them to appear? 

"Upload" usually means "to Faithlife server". So you wouldn't see any Media at the Church as it is all online.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 7054
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 15 2019 4:36 PM

Dave Hooton:

DAL:
If I uploaded my pictures, then why do I need internet for them to appear? 

"Upload" usually means "to Faithlife server". So you wouldn't see any Media at the Church as it is all online.

Must be a FL limited understanding of the word upload, because I upload pictures from my iPhone to my computer and no internet is needed.  Upload is data transfer; yes it can involve the internet, but in this case it’s totally stupid to even upload to the software if you can’t even access it while offline line.

It came straight from my computer and Logos should have a media folder so we can access our content both on or off line, just like we have access to our books and their media offline.

Anyway, another feature request, I guess.

DAL

PS. Thanks for clarifying, though, that’s a new one for me  — FL’s exclusive meaning of “upload.”

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 15 2019 4:44 PM

DAL:
Anyway, another feature request, I guess.

Unfortunately, what you are asking for is not possible - uploading/downloading require a way to transmit the data from one device to another. On a phone that transmission is built in. On most other devices, it requires the internet or a personal network. To do what you want you must download to the church device from a location where the internet is available. Then it will be available locally at church.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5315
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 15 2019 11:28 PM

MJ. Smith:

DAL:
Anyway, another feature request, I guess.

Unfortunately, what you are asking for is not possible - uploading/downloading require a way to transmit the data from one device to another. On a phone that transmission is built in. On most other devices, it requires the internet or a personal network. To do what you want you must download to the church device from a location where the internet is available. Then it will be available locally at church.

If the device on which you did the upload, at home, is a laptop and you then take same laptop to a secondary location, church building in this case, where there is no internet, then original image should still be available and accessible on the laptop as well as a copy being on the FL Server to download to other devices when an internet connection is available. 

DAL was not clear if same device was in used in both location, but I read that it was the case, but if he is describing it the way you read it MJ as  different devices in each location then you are correct in what you ate saying.

Posts 7054
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 1:30 AM

DIsciple II:

MJ. Smith:

DAL:
Anyway, another feature request, I guess.

Unfortunately, what you are asking for is not possible - uploading/downloading require a way to transmit the data from one device to another. On a phone that transmission is built in. On most other devices, it requires the internet or a personal network. To do what you want you must download to the church device from a location where the internet is available. Then it will be available locally at church.

If the device on which you did the upload, at home, is a laptop and you then take same laptop to a secondary location, church building in this case, where there is no internet, then original image should still be available and accessible on the laptop as well as a copy being on the FL Server to download to other devices when an internet connection is available. 

DAL was not clear if same device was in used in both location, but I read that it was the case, but if he is describing it the way you read it MJ as  different devices in each location then you are correct in what you ate saying.

yes, Same device. That’s why I was wondering why they’re not showing.

The question about images in a personal book hasn’t been answered yet. 

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 1:36 AM

DAL:
Must be a FL limited understanding of the word upload, because I upload pictures from my iPhone to my computer and no internet is needed.

When you upload pictures from your iPhone to your computer, both devices are local. A (local area) network is being used to directly transfer the pictures between the two local devices. The internet is not needed since nothing is remote.

When you upload media from your computer to FL, the internet is used to transfer the media to a remote FL server.

DAL:
If I uploaded my pictures, then why do I need internet for them to appear?

The pictures don’t appear because they’re not local to your church computer. They were uploaded to FL, not directly transferred to your church computer.

For your church computer to access that remote media on the FL server, it would also need to use the internet. That’s not a specific FL limitation. An offline computer can’t access (or sync with) a remote server until it is online.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 2:00 AM

DAL:
yes, Same device. That’s why I was wondering why they’re not showing.

Same device, but you’re not looking in the same location.

Media you upload from your iPhone ends up in some generic directory (such as My Pictures) outside of Logos. Media you upload to FL ends up on their server.

That initial upload does not transfer anything into a specific local database/directory within Logos.

When you launch Logos and try to look at your Logos media, it doesn’t check other directories on your computer (such as My Pictures). It only shows what is within Logos (or on their servers which necessitates an internet connection), not what coincidentally happens to be stored elsewhere on your computer.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

Posts 7054
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 3:38 AM

PetahChristian:

DAL:
yes, Same device. That’s why I was wondering why they’re not showing.

Same device, but you’re not looking in the same location.

Media you upload from your iPhone ends up in some generic directory (such as My Pictures) outside of Logos. Media you upload to FL ends up on their server.

That initial upload does not transfer anything into a specific local database/directory within Logos.

When you launch Logos and try to look at your Logos media, it doesn’t check other directories on your computer (such as My Pictures). It only shows what is within Logos (or on their servers which necessitates an internet connection), not what coincidentally happens to be stored elsewhere on your computer.

OK obviously you did not read and pay attention to the whole conversation.  The iPhone was just used as an example to illustrate that the word upload doesn’t always involve Internet.  So far nobody has really paid attention that’s why the confusion.

To clarify I use my laptop to upload my own images to logos Bible software and the same laptop gets taken to church but the images are nowhere to be found.  But according to disciple I should be able to see my images online or off-line, because I’m using the same laptop that I use to upload the images to the software. So the copy should be available in the same laptop and in the server provided by faith life.

Now I ask again can you compile a personal book full of images and have them available within the software off-line as a temporary solution? (since personal books are just compiled within the software).

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 5:04 AM

Hi DAL

DAL:
To clarify I use my laptop to upload my own images to logos Bible software and the same laptop gets taken to church but the images are nowhere to be found.  But according to disciple I should be able to see my images online or off-line, because I’m using the same laptop that I use to upload the images to the software. So the copy should be available in the same laptop and in the server provided by faith life.

I've tested this and see the same behaviour as you are describing.

I actually think it is reasonable for the software to be doing this. Even though the images are still on your laptop, the Media Tool is trying to get them from the User Media area associated with your account on the Logos servers and - as you have no Internet connection - it is unable to do so. For this to be different, there would need to be some work done to maintain a local cache of anything you uploaded into the User Media area and for the software to check there first or if no network connection were available.

DAL:
Now I ask again can you compile a personal book full of images and have them available within the software off-line as a temporary solution? (since personal books are just compiled within the software).

Yes - I can confirm that this works.

Posts 7054
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 5:20 AM

Thank you, Graham! You nailed it 👍😁👌 I appreciate it!

DAL

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 7:14 AM

DAL:
To clarify I use my laptop to upload my own images to logos Bible software and the same laptop gets taken to church but the images are nowhere to be found.

Outside of Logos, your own images would still be found in the same directory you uploaded them from (unless you deleted them after uploading them to FL).

DAL:
But according to disciple I should be able to see my images online or off-line, because I’m using the same laptop that I use to upload the images to the software.

Not from within Logos (when you are offline), since Logos only checks the server for images. It doesn't look outside its local directory for your original images that were uploaded. (That would lead to all sorts of permission/privacy issues.)

If Logos relied on the original image that exists outside of Logos, it would also break things if you ever moved, renamed, or deleted that image.

DAL:
So the copy should be available in the same laptop and in the server provided by faith life.

Despite being the same image, they are two files after uploading -- the original image which exists outside of Logos on your local drive, and the copy which exists on the FL server. Logos doesn't access your original image, it accesses its remote copy for good reasons.

In general, pictures, movies, music, books, etc., are kept in the cloud so they don't consume space on each device you use to access them.

Some services let you download a movie or book so you can watch or read it when you are not online. Logos lets you do that with Mobile Ed videos. Perhaps you should make the case that its user media should also be downloadable on demand, to handle the times when you are not online.

Just keep in mind that there's no optimum solution. Logos customers who run low on disk space have to move part of their library to the cloud, or remove cached files to free up space.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

Posts 5315
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 11:06 AM

We know what the software is doing, which is what everyone is focussing upon after missing the point that the same device was in use at both locations.  What DAL is saying is he would like to see the behaviour of the software changed.  I don't think it's an unreasonable request. 

I really don't understand why everyone has to knock DAL's idea and defend the current software behaviour. It seem's like the FL can do no wrong attitude has crept into this post.  All Douglas has done is made a feature suggestion.  Can't we respect that he has expressed a wish and let it stand and leave it up to FL to determine whether it is possible and if so where it would fit as a priority without all trying to tear it down just because the software currently behaves different?

I hardly see any MVP's on these forums these days and yet in this post they have all come out of the woodwork to tell DAL he is wrong for thinking outside of the box and making a suggestion about he would like to see the software change. Show some respect to your fellow users and let them express their ideas.  This is not a reality TV show where you get to destroy other people's ideas in order to prove why you have MVP status in these forums.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 3:50 PM

DAL:
To clarify I use my laptop to upload my own images to logos Bible software and the same laptop gets taken to church but the images are nowhere to be found.  But according to disciple I should be able to see my images online or off-line, because I’m using the same laptop that I use to upload the images to the software. So the copy should be available in the same laptop and in the server provided by faith life.

Your own images are still on your laptop in the location you uploaded them from; they are also available online on the upload server. What you want is to have them in a location that is synced (downloaded) to each machine you use - for example, as notes are or personal books are. That is possible if done with user control as many devices lack the space for large media files.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 28699
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 3:55 PM

DIsciple II:
I hardly see any MVP's on these forums these days and yet in this post they have all come out of the woodwork to tell DAL he is wrong for thinking outside of the box and making a suggestion about he would like to see the software change.

Sometimes it is necessary to keep questioning an idea until you get to the root of the problem to either (a) provide a current solution or (b) can provide a suggested modification that is physically possible and therefore can get the developers' attention. The developers' do not spend time with the user making the suggestion sorting out what the problem is as they would in a business situation. People who speak the lingo and know the software have to step in a fill the hole.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 7054
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 3:56 PM

What amuses me is how, from the beginning, some didn’t even read anything right and all of the sudden they, each, just started sharing their own technical and software development knowledge explaining how phones work and how is not possible and how Logos reads different directories, etc. when none of that applied to the request I made to the real software developers at FL!  From what I hear, the request is very reasonable and within reach and not an impossibility.

If my screen drawing software can “upload” (no internet required) my own pictures from the same laptop I use to present and save them within the software so I can mark them up and draw on them and still save the original picture and the marked up one, and it only costs $49 bucks! I’m sure Logos can do better (which I’ve been told is possible).

If personal books can be stored locally and accessed without any Internet connection whatsoever and it can include pictures then I’m sure as I’ve been told that the same can be done with the media.  My pictures/graphics available in my laptop within Logos so I can use them as I please with or without internet.  Very possible and reasonable request!

Nobody really bothered to actually understand the request.

Furthermore, if Accordance allows me to “upload” my own pictures (EVEN IN A NOTE FILE!!! Isn’t that amazing!!!???) so I can access them and incorporate them anywhere I want within the software, and even outside the software after “uploading” it (and no internet is required), then I’m sure Logos can do better! Hah! And BTW, I didn’t even have to pay $500 bucks for a full feature set to be able to do this — with accordance I paid $50 bucks for their starter collection which contains all the features Accordance offers, including the feature that allows me to “upload” (no internet required in this context) pictures and have them available with or without internet connection, to use them however I please.

So, computer Savvy’s, don’t worry, your approval or expertise is not needed for this request.  It’s a simple and very possible request; now it’s only up to FL to see if they actually want to improve their software and make this happen.

But to be honest I feel that Faithlife/Logos has reach the status quo and has become complacent in the software development department. They’re now more interested in selling books and fix a bug or two to keep some people happy and be content with just being slightly better than the competition. They don’t seek to excel anymore like they used to. Maybe they’re running out of ideas or budget to implement new ideas.

At the end of the day, even the so called “best Bible software in the world” will fail at providing everything in one place when it comes to Bible study tools and resources (e.g. Carta, better graphics, better drawing tool, better sermon editor, etc.). So if my simple, very easy to implement request is not granted, it’s fine. Logos can’t provide everything anyway and that’s understandable 👍😁👌

Any-who!

Have a nice evening 👍😁👌

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 4:11 PM

DAL:
Nobody really bothered to actually understand the request.

Yes, we did after questioning so that we understood terms in the way you were using them and understood the additional step/location you wanted. In the forums, there are a wide variety of people using language in a wide variety of ways. Expect to see responses based on how others interpret what you said not on what you meant to say. Sorry to have offended you but it did take me a while to get to "see cloud resources without internet" which is how I heard your initial request to "make a copy in a local file perhaps by syncing" which is how I would say what you actually wanted.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 7054
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 4:21 PM

MJ. Smith:

DAL:
Nobody really bothered to actually understand the request.

Yes, we did after questioning so that we understood terms in the way you were using them and understood the additional step/location you wanted. In the forums, there are a wide variety of people using language in a wide variety of ways. Expect to see responses based on how others interpret what you said not on what you meant to say. Sorry to have offended you but it did take me a while to get to "see cloud resources without internet" which is how I heard your initial request to "make a copy in a local file perhaps by syncing" which is how I would say what you actually wanted.

No need to apologize! No offense taken. The request will be either granted or not, it’s fine either way.  I don’t expect much from Logos now days anyway.

DAL

Posts 5315
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 4:34 PM

If questions were being asked I would not have felt the need to comment, but questions weren’t being asked to understand DAL, instead DAL was being told he did not understand how the software worked and so his comment on what he would like to happen was wrong. If MVP’s were questioning to gain understanding they seriously need to work on their technique because it did not come across that way.

MJ. Smith:

DIsciple II:
I hardly see any MVP's on these forums these days and yet in this post they have all come out of the woodwork to tell DAL he is wrong for thinking outside of the box and making a suggestion about he would like to see the software change.

Sometimes it is necessary to keep questioning an idea until you get to the root of the problem to either (a) provide a current solution or (b) can provide a suggested modification that is physically possible and therefore can get the developers' attention. The developers' do not spend time with the user making the suggestion sorting out what the problem is as they would in a business situation. People who speak the lingo and know the software have to step in a fill the hole.

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LogosEmployee
Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 4:07 PM

DAL:
FL’s exclusive meaning of “upload.”

I don't know, it seems like a pretty common understanding ... 

...to upload is to send data to a remote system such as a server or another client so that the remote system can store a copy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload

vs sideloading

...the process of transferring files between two local devices...

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

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