Logos 9 Wishlist

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Dec 16 2019 9:30 PM

What are the most important things we should solve for Logos 9?

  • What general themes or areas should we focus on?
  • What bugs should we fix?
  • What improvements should we make to existing features?
  • What new features should we add?
  • What new data sets should we build?
  • What new books should we include?

Please specify desktop, mobile, and/or web, where appropriate.

What does your ideal Logos 9 upgrade look like? What would make Logos 9 an irresistible upgrade for you?

If different, what should we do to win the next generation of new users?

Please include links to forum threads, User Voice requests, etc. where applicable.

We've reviewed the User Voice feedback for desktop, mobile, and books, but I want to make sure that the priorities there are reflective of the current priorities of our forum community.

Thanks for taking the time to share your feedback!

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 10:32 PM

Thanks for starting this thread, Phil! I'll probably add more details later, but in general I'd like to see most of the focus put into those areas that were considered/rumored/planned for L8, but didn't make the cut.

Workflows still need a lot of work before they're truly useful.

Notes need quite a bit of improvement/additions:

Search builder...

Context menu: 

  • Move a labels into the info panel (and improve that).
  • Add the ability to toggle sections on/off in settings.
  • Add the ability to copy pointed and transliterated text directly.

Bug fixes:

  • Fix morph charts!
  • Fix scaling issues on macOS (there's LOTS of them!)
Posts 197
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 11:03 PM

Thanks for asking!

Here would be my top 10 desired new features/improvements:

  1. Images in notes / canvas / workflows (Desktop/Mobile)
  2. User tables in notes/ canvas / workflows (Desktop/Mobile)
  3. Visual annotation of text (like Accordance 13) (Desktop/Mobile)
  4. Full touch screen support (Desktop)
  5. PBBs in mobile (Mobile)
  6. Increase In speed (Desktop)
  7. Extra levels of indent in workflow hierarchy (Desktop/Mobile)
  8. Negotiations done with Zondervan et al to avoid the frustrating 'Not available in your country' (Web)
  9. Psalters resources (Resources)
  10. Ability to sync via webDAV or similar self-hosted servers rather than Logos Servers (Desktop/Mobile)

Thanks for listening.

Every blessing,

James

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 11:22 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
what should we do to win the next generation of new users?

The younger purchasers have never been restricted to paper resources. They expect things to be available to them online in a complete, speedy, and intuitive manner. They have little patience for bugs and incomplete features. Make sure every feature is a complete, tidy, polished product.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
What are the most important things we should solve for Logos 9?

Links are a random sample going back at least 5 years of nagging and not all topics have had a search on the forums for a link ... maybe tomorrow.

  1. Make it easier to add data types/milestones so that Creeds, church documents, standard references always get data types so that Logos supports the referencing used in our resources. https://community.logos.com/forums/t/186910.aspx
  2. Resolve the issues in commentaries caused by using the same milestones for the bible translation and the commentary https://community.logos.com/forums/t/186271.aspx
  3. Make it very easy to change translations in a popup so that when a resource references a specific translation we can see that translation. https://community.logos.com/forums/t/120765.aspx
  4. Make it possible to view commentaries such as the AYB or Hermenia with translations, notes, commentary portions side by side SUGGESTION: The view of Bible Commentaries that would really enhance my experience
  5. Make more library traits visible and available for collections [request] Bradley: Please expose the 'traits' column in collections
  6. Add pseudepigrapha support to Factbook
  7. Complete a number of features that feel unfinished
    • Additional entries in Bible People Visual Timeline - add Elijah, Ruth, Joseph and commit to adding two or three a year
    • Continue to add to the Narrative Character Maps
    • Add interactives for parables, promises, questions ... so we can see the full picture not just individual instances i.e. understand what we are looking at Interactive Tool for the Parables of the Bible
    • Finish the documentation especially for Biblical Person, Place, Thing, Event ... Biblical Event Navigator DOCUMENTATION MISSING BUG: Biblical Event Navigator BUG: Missing documentation: Bible Outline Browser dataset BUG? Missing documentation: Parallel Gospel Reader . . .
    • Fix the morphology charts so they actually work Bug:אֱלוֹהַּ and Morphology chart
    • Add the n-tuple function to the concordance so that it actually provides new data SUGGESTION: Finish the Concordance tool
    • Make clippings carry a complete citation Clippings and Footnotes
    • Finish backlog of sermon tagging KYLE: New (to me) resource not tagged for sermons?
    • Finish backlog of pericope tagging RESOLVED BUG: Deferred data updates ; consider adding pericopes as defined in commentaries; consider a new feature of pericopes in lectionaries
    • Add more resources to outline feature - concentrating on commentaries with detailed outlines; make it possible for the individual to add items as they can with sermon labels Add Evangelical Commentary on the Bible to the Bible Outline Browser
    • Improve performance of drop down pick lists A plea for speeding up the "select resource" drop down in search FRUSTRATED with Logos wasting my computer cycles
    • Add the features that limit the usefulness of the Workflows - especially make them handle more than a single passage Sermon Workflow with multiple scriptural references Workflow Editor Improvements
    • Add Saints support for Anglicans and Lutherans
    • Add Protestant lectionary-based sermon support by a guide section linked to The Text This Week SUGGESTION: Logos 7 The Text This Week 
    • Add the Narrative Lectionary and the Season of Creation (Mainstream Protestant) Narrative Lectionary Season of Creation lectionary
    • Build a sermon starter guide and modify the sermon editor to support the 80% of Christians who use a lectionary Suggestion: Homily Helpers Guide
    • Make a noticeable dent in the Factbook duplicates
    • Make noticeable progress on Timeline links
    • Resolve issues arising from different levels of granularity on older and newer Church Father's works
    • Add table capability to Notes - even if only copy & paste as in the old Notes Clippings and Footnotes
    • Update the Canon comparison to include all the canons in recent publications
    • Build additional resources of the Guide to his Life and Writings type and commit to a couple a year
    • Allow prioritization by collection e.g. prioritize a particular translation for all resources tagged with a particular value
    • Provide Canvas source documents for items FL generated on Canvas - serve as examples to those trying to become familiar with Canvas
    • Continue work on Faithlife Assistant - which at the moment is a good idea stalled in the unfinished dump
    • A simple way to report errors from anywhere rather than multiple places to look (help, documentation, wiki, forum) with no assurance FL is still looking there.
    • Convert highly used shared resources into official resources - the online DSS file Dead Sea Scrolls Internet Links Index, the Bible studies files Index of Bible Studies, the commentary classifications Collection rules for sorting commentaries (updated for Logos 8 Base Packages). . .
    • Make case frames available by verb
    • Continue on search templates until there is at least as much capability as in the old catalogue style templates
    • Add Talmudic rabbis to Factbook and tag the Talmuds by rabbi Logos reliance on a deprecated product - Freebase
    • Add alternative Biblical names for Bible People giving the Greek (Vulgate) names and the Messianic Jewish names
    • Clearly identify in the library resources that are single in print but split by language or resource type in Logos. Allow an option to collapse to a single resource instance in library & collection views.
    • Allow the user to define a collection to be used as the default "All resources" (For years mine was titled "Basic Logos/Verbum Library") to keep a manageable working library without having to hide the more exotic resources.
    • Expand the flash card function to allow creating decks for the definitions necessary to understand each of the FL datasets - sets must be sharable (or provided by FL) Flash cards for books
    • Fix Prayer List - most notably so that entering an answer does not mark the prayer done ... my theology allows partial and step-wise answers.How do you use prayer lists?
    • Add additional volumes to the Sacred Art series - especially icons and non-European art
    • Be able to use a Passage List as the condition for a highlight SUGGESTIONS for Passage List/Visual Filters ... requested before, still waiting
    • Be able to auto-build a milestone search from the context menu as well as the current datatype search BUG we've been trying to get acknowledged since Sept 1
    • Add prebuilt catechism reading plans and confession of faith with commentaries reading plans
    • Finish the maps and add the resource Zev Vilany: The Sacred Land (3 volumes) i.e. 1. Legends of Jerusalem 2. Legends of Judea and Samaria 3. Legends of Galilee, Jordon and Sinai Note this is the geographic equivalent to Legends of the Jews and is an essential background reference.
    • Add Help cards to Verbum
    • Identify the LST as Protestant or update it significantly
    • Make morphological search documents shareable
    • Split the Passage Analysis tool into multiple parts to make it easier to find the tools included in it
    • Add the generation of a syntax tree diagram from the standard brackets notation to the Sentence diagrammer
    • Add highlight/filter functions to footnotes
  8. Add a Church Father's interactive ... at a minimum all the Fathers in Migne, birth/location, death /location, titles, works ...
  9. Add a structures and forms dataset - parallels, chiasms, steps .... proclamation stories ... Visual Filters showing Literary Structure & Forms ???
  10. Add a Creeds and Confessions of Faith index dataset using the standard articles of the Nicene Creed as the starting point for organization. Catechisms might be tied in as a separate dimension. Note these documents should all be datatyped so I've come the full circle.
  11. Create an ongoing process for users, especially professors, to submit tables appropriate for interactive datasets, documents, and workflow as potential additions to the "official" Logos

In short, I want a package that feels finished for nearly all its functions - I don't like being reminded that I'm limited by decisions made in the DOS days, or that a cool idea was tried without serious thought as to how it is to be used, or that turned out to be a bigger project than expected so it sort of got dropped. With the exception of the LST, the most valuable recent additions to Logos have been in indexing and selection for guide sections. Make sure those always work at an optimum level.

For new features to highlight as "Logos 9's crown jewel":

One way to make sure Logos feels complete:

  1. Go through Tate, W. Randolph. Handbook for Biblical Interpretation: An Essential Guide to Methods, Terms, and Concepts. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2012. to identify the major types of Bible Criticism
  2. For each of them, walk through the step required to apply that interpretative lens in Logos noting setup required by user (tagging, collections, labels ...)
  3. Note steps that put you at a procedural dead end when you ought to be able to click to see additional information or navigate to a reasonable next step.
  4. Put together a proposal of the modifications necessary to make applying the lens possible - and those necessary to make it work well.
  5. Group similar lens (types of Bible criticism) together and work to make Logos helpful for all approaches. My personal urgent need is reception history.


P.S. Uservoice has not reflected my priorities since the ability to redistribute votes was loss and I was told to take it up with UserVoice.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 30
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 11:31 PM

Will it work on my windows 8.1 system?

Posts 1505
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 12:18 AM

Probably for general interest:

1. Better prioritization (user friendly GUI, resource type specific, etc., probably others have many more implementation ideas)

2. Folders for the shortcuts in the top bar

***

These are mostly mine, or for a small special user base 

1. User specific fonts. For example for the Latin interlinear, I would like to have a clearly different font for the Latin text line.

2. Hebrew audio (for the beginning, only a small part of the OT is needed)

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 239
Hans van den Herik | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 12:40 AM

In Notes

  1. Headings in notes. Indispensable for long notes.
  2. Notes sometimes become inconsistent when inserting of changing text in Mac OS Catalina.
  3. Ability to change fonts easily: Changing Hebrew/Greek/English keyboards as in Search.
  4. Merge clippings and notes.

Sermon editor

  1. Make sermon editor or notes more robust for writing academic papers. Ability to link to resources

Search

  1. Make it easier to perform complex searches through a semi-graphical interface which insert AND, OR, BETWEEN, parenthesis etc. 
Posts 6858
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 1:40 AM

See this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/186839.aspx

If you can’t pull this off, then any other request is pointless! It only means you’ll end up doing whatever you want anyway and you’re just asking this to “make believe” users they’re being taken into consideration when they’re really not.

Also add ability to put pictures in users notes.

Improve graphics.  It’s been years EVERYBODY has been asking for this.

Improve drawing functionality. 

And that’s it!

Thanks for the thread! At least one thing is within the realm of possibilities — L9 coming soon in the future.

DAL

Posts 18854
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 1:43 AM

My #1 (and only) priority is: Make it faster for users with enormous libraries (20,000+ resources; I have 25,474 unhidden ones) and lots of collections (I have 221). Everywhere that being such a power library owner slows down the product needs to be sped up or I cannot use the product. It is such a painful experience for me these days that I'm simply not using it much anymore, even though I continue to buy books in the hope that maybe someday it will become usable again. I even tried buying a new ultra fast computer, and it was still unusable. (See here.) I deleted most of my Visual Filters, since someone told me that might be what's slowing things down. No appreciable improvement.

Some of those areas that are painfully slow are:

  • populating dropdowns that have lists of collections, such as the Search In dropdown in a Search tab
  • switching focus back to Logos after being in another Windows app for a while
  • opening Logos when a Search tab or Guide was open in the last workspace you shut down with (which makes that Search or Guide start to run again, which is uninterruptible; it should not run again unless the user specifically requests it to run again)
  • updating Library Catalog whenever you edit tags

Sad

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 1:56 AM

Reuben Helmuth:

Context menu: 

  • Move a labels into the info panel (and improve that).

If this is done, then the building of the search for the label has to also move - the ability to get a pre-built search argument for the label is critical.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 28223
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 2:00 AM

Rosie Perera:
Make it faster for users with enormous libraries (20,000+ resources; I have 25,474 unhidden ones) and lots of collections (I have 221). Everywhere that being such a power library owner slows down the product needs to be sped up or I cannot use the product.

I second everything Rosie said.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 13385
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 2:20 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
What does your ideal Logos 9 upgrade look like? What would make Logos 9 an irresistible upgrade for you?

I appreciate that to sell upgrades to Logos 9 you need something new, but I don't think that's what Logos needs right now.

My focus would be on consolidating datasets and tools and improving existing features. Currently, there are so many diverse datasets it's hard to keep on top of them all, and most users don't benefit from them. There are also too many different ways to access the data: factbook, guides and workflows.

I'd favour an approach for beginning users where that would guide them through the process of choosing the right tool, something like this:

  • What do you want to study today? (you'd enter the topic, lemma, person, thing, event, etc.)
  • Do you want all the information at once or a step-by-step study? (guide/factbook or workflow)
  • Is this for a devotional study / essay / sermon?
  • How much time do you have?

Logos would then switch to the right workflow/guide and tailor the output accordingly (removing or minimising certain sections depending on the depth of study and time available).

I'd also like to see significant upgrades to the Workflow tool, which is brilliant already but could be so much better. Reuben is the cheerleader for Workflows, and I'm with him 100%. Being able to specify collections for the Commentary section is one very easy win that would make a big difference.

Posts 331
Kevin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 2:56 AM

Leader-->Follower Link Sets please!. Will stop Bible jumping around when  using arrow keys to switch between commentaries.
 

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Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 3:06 AM

Mark Barnes:
I appreciate that to sell upgrades to Logos 9 you need something new, but I don't think that's what Logos needs right now.

Agreed!

Posts 255
John C Connell Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 3:22 AM

How about a Format Painter for Notes?

Be strong and courageous. . . for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go.

Posts 477
Liam & Abi Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 4:46 AM

There is no denying that L8 was a HUGE step up from L7 so L9 has some big boots to fill. I also recognise that you need something new to sell L9 on, but on the way please don't overlook the following.

First, I agree with everyone who has mentioned so far: 

  • Faster Logos! Faster start-up, faster search, faster visual filters, faster concordance build time!
  • Easier search syntax and/or GUI search builder. 
  • Consolidate, update, improve datasets and documentation
  • Better note support, Cf. Evernote web. 
  • Better note support. The new notes system is a great improvement there is still a way to go (tables, headings, images, markdown syntax support, etc.)

In addition, I would like to see the following things added to the list: 

    • Visual filter support on mobile and web
    • Full Latin support for Bible word study guide.
    • Latin Bible Sense support
    • Morphology Chart updates on click/hover when in a linked set (same as Lexicons do)
    • Latin support for Morphology charts 

    Where do I sign up to beta test? Stick out tongue

    Carpe verbum.

    Posts 1768
    Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 5:22 AM

    Phil Gons (Faithlife):
    What bugs should we fix?

    All of them. 

    I can not understand why Faithlife doesn't put a higher priority on fixing bugs. If an "update" breaks something, it should be fixed ASAP. For an example of a feature that was broken sometime during an update, see:  https://community.logos.com/forums/t/177426.aspx Here we are almost a year later and it is still broken. Why? 

    I truly can't understand why it is ok to ignore functions that don't work correctly and then wonder if they should be fixed. 

    Posts 496
    John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 5:34 AM

    Mark Barnes:

    I'd favour an approach for beginning users where that would guide them through the process of choosing the right tool, something like this:

    • What do you want to study today? (you'd enter the topic, lemma, person, thing, event, etc.)
    • Do you want all the information at once or a step-by-step study? (guide/factbook or workflow)
    • Is this for a devotional study / essay / sermon?
    • How much time do you have?

    Logos would then switch to the right workflow/guide and tailor the output accordingly (removing or minimising certain sections depending on the depth of study and time available).

    Also, I agree with Mark on the need to help beginners come to terms with Logos. With so many features, the beginner struggles in making significant progress unless much time is invested climbing the steep learning curve. For power users, the interface is great. And help for beginners to become power users is really welcome. 

    Yet, for some basic users who don't in the slightest aspire to ever being power users, the feature-filled interface is simply a stumbling block. I know some people who have given up using Logos because it is simply far too complex for them. Many people just can't cope with that level of complexity in 'any' software. They opt for free Bible software alternatives, not because they are better in terms of the features that they offer, but because they feel more able to simply use them without being overwhelmed (in that sense they are better for some users). And they lose out on access to the many resources that Logos has available, which their free software doesn't.

    Logos has two great advantages, one being amazing functionality for Bible study, the other being a great library of resources. The interface is great for Bible study, but that same interface is a hindrance for those who simply want to read (or view) resources without mastering the complex software. 

    Can I suggest that Logos 9 add a feature that other software products have, by providing different interfaces for different users. For example, other software products have Basic vs Expert (Express vs Advanced, or Reader vs Study) interfaces. That would allow some users to feel comfortable and competent using Logos with a basic interface having a very limited set of features, rather than them feeling overwhelmed and giving up. (There might even be an argument for an intermediate interface too). Recent improvements have made the complex interface somewhat easier to use, but it is still not simple enough for many people I would suggest. 

    Imagine if Logos were as easy to use to just read theology resources as Kindle is for general books...

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    PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 5:47 AM

    1. A background process which would download and index new resources we purchase while Logos is not open.  It would also be very helpful if it could handle Preparing library/Updating library catalog before Logos is launched, so we don't have to wait as long for housekeeping tasks to finish.

    2. Improve the Notes UI, especially in my preferred 3-column view where controls get truncated, and the formatting ribbon wraps to four rows. (Even when the note is expanded to fill the whole panel, the ribbon still wraps to two rows.)

    3. Add missing functionality to the Courses tool which has been on the list of things to do for several years. One example is user-created courses. Another is how the courses tool was possibly intended to be a replacement for reading lists and (customizing) reading plans.

    4. Make it easier for a non-power user like me to remember which of the many tools and features might be helpful in learning more about a topic, such as Kabbalah. Some users might start off with the Factbook, while others might search their library for resources about the topic, or post on the forums asking for book recommendations. I tend to pop out of Logos to search the store, but there's probably a way to do that in-app. I often forget that someone might have created a reading list. It would be nice if there was a guide which could do this... wait... is there a topic guide? Why, yes there is! But the Kabbalah topic seems to be lacking. It gives me 3 dictionary links, and a Factbook link. Most of the sections have no results. The Bookstore section shows 8 books, but none of them are specifically about Kabbalah. (I get very different results when searching the store directly for that term.) There's no section for Reading lists, so I've got to open that tool, but a Kabbalah list doesn't exist yet. I've never created a reading list. That link brings me out of Logos to the wiki, where I see I have to learn some markup. I go back to reading a Kabbalah book (on Kindle because it's not available yet in Logos).

    I'm still at a loss as to where topical content like that should go, especially since we don't have a roadmap of planned features or improvements. A user-created course? A reading list?

    5. FL had posted about adding Theology/Denomination tagging to library resources (so users wouldn't have to wait for helpful third-party collections to be updated). Can this be done for Logos 9?

    6. Please provide a Hebrew audio bible. It's frustrating that the NT has Greek audio, yet the OT is still lacking Hebrew audio.

    7. Dark mode, please. It's gotten lots of user-suggested support, and we still get posts requesting it. It would really help with eye strain not to have to read such a bright screen in the evening or early morning.

    8. Carta. It's frustrating that it's available in two other bible study apps, but not in Logos. I would love to have access to the wealth of information that is in their resources, all within Logos.

    My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

    Posts 78
    Phil Quigley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 17 2019 5:52 AM

    One thing that I think would be good is the ability to make a visual filter off a syntatical search. For example: I'm learning Hebrew and a common construction is the Cognate Infinitive Absolute. I can easily make a syntax search to find those results, but it would be nice to be able to make that a Visual filter so I can see those results when reading an English translation. Also, it would be beneficial to be able to see visual filters on the mobile app.

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