Fusion Drive Hardware Question

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Chris Funkhouser | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2020 8:06 AM

For all the much more tech minded Logos users out there I have a question. I have been using a 2011 i5 processed iMac for several years now and it has started becoming very slow. 

I have the opportunity to upgrade to a 27” used iMac for a reasonable cost that comes with a 128GB SSD/1 TB Hdd Fusion drive and either a 3.2 i5 or a 4.0 i7 processor. I can afford either of those models.

My question is two fold:

1. Is the Fusion drive a sufficient ssd upgrade to increase Logos performance or does everything of logos need to be on a SDD? (My library is in excess of 10,000 resources now)

2. If the Fusion drive is sufficient is it worth $150 extra to have the faster processor? 

I appreciate any input I can get here. You guys rock in sacrificially giving your time and opinions to make Logos a more user friendly tool!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:00 AM

A fusion drive is not an SSD  and you can’t control what goes onto the SSD portion. I would be worried about performance. The only way to really know would be to have someone test identical systems with identical accounts. This would be a great question for FL if they had two such systems. 

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Posts 54
Chris Funkhouser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:14 AM

So then do you think I would get just as much performance upgrade by changing out my computer’s current HDD for a 1 TB SDD? 

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:19 AM

Chris Funkhouser:
Is the Fusion drive a sufficient ssd upgrade to increase Logos performance

No. A Fusion drive keeps frequently accessed files on the SSD portion, which won't necessarily be Logos files.

Chris Funkhouser:
does everything of logos need to be on a SDD?

This is the best option by far. You'll notice a significant difference, compared to HDD or Fusion drives.

Be careful not to skimp on capacity. 256GB SSD or larger, depending on how much storage your non-Logos files and apps take.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:27 AM

Chris Funkhouser:

So then do you think I would get just as much performance upgrade by changing out my computer’s current HDD for a 1 TB SDD? 

On your 2011 iMac? I wouldn't for a couple of reasons.

First, transfer speed has increased significantly over the years. The older computer SSDs will be slower than more recent models.

Second, macOS requirements. At some point, Logos or another app you use will require an OS that won't be supported on older hardware.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

Posts 54
Chris Funkhouser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:28 AM

Ok thanks that helps a bunch. helps me rethink what I am doing.

Posts 54
Chris Funkhouser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:32 AM

So staying in the Mac world because I am fully invested in that ecosystem. What is the oldest computers you would consider upgrading?

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:38 AM

Chris Funkhouser:
What is the oldest computers you would consider upgrading?

I'd approach it from a different direction. What's the newest Apple refurbished model within your budget?

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:40 AM

I am hopeful for new minis this year.  That May provide an opportunity to get a brand new model OR a discounted new “old” version. If Logos is the ONLY thing you do (especially no music, photo,  videos) a 256 GB should be sufficient. Else, 500. 

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Posts 54
Chris Funkhouser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 9:47 AM

Alright guys that is really helpful advice. I am going to start doing some hardware research with new eyes.

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Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 10:14 AM

I have an iMac with a 3TB fusion drive and a MacBook Pro with a 1TB SSD. Based on my experiences I do not see much of a difference in performance if any at all. The Fusion drive is very fast. The SSD portion will store the info that you access the most. If you use Logos much, it will migrate those files to that portion of the drive. Again, based on my real world experience, you would see great performance from a Mac with a Fusion drive that is comparable to a SSD.

Hope that is helpful. Blessings.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 10:39 AM

Michael McLane:
I have an iMac with a 3TB fusion drive and a MacBook Pro with a 1TB SSD.

I would see that as quite different than the original question, which was a much smaller drive. I do appreciate your first hand report though! Smile

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Posts 54
Chris Funkhouser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 11:04 AM

Do you know the size of the SSD portion of your fusion drive?

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 15 2020 1:19 PM

Chris Funkhouser:

Do you know the size of the SSD portion of your fusion drive?

The maximum SSD on the Fusion Drives looks to be 128 SSD. I owned pre-2015 iMacs (1 TB/128 GB Fusion Drives) where Logos performed quite well. The newer iMacs have quite smaller SSD portions for the 1 TB Fusion Drives. I don't think they would run Logos all that well. But you said that the iMac you were considering had a 128 GB SSD portion? It must be pre-2015?

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_Drive

Posts 856
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2020 5:31 PM

Yes, my fusion drive has a 128GB SSD. I would then think that your odds of having more of your data on the SSD portion might be better since it is a larger portion of your overall capacity. In actuality that likely does not make any difference, but it is food for thought.

Let us know what you decide on with your purchase.

Blessings, Michael.

Posts 856
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2020 5:32 PM

JT (alabama24):
I would see that as quite different than the original question, which was a much smaller drive.

Its all I had to offer. Big Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 26 2020 11:43 PM

PetahChristian:

Chris Funkhouser:

So then do you think I would get just as much performance upgrade by changing out my computer’s current HDD for a 1 TB SDD? 

On your 2011 iMac? I wouldn't for a couple of reasons.

First, transfer speed has increased significantly over the years. The older computer SSDs will be slower than more recent models.

Second, macOS requirements. At some point, Logos or another app you use will require an OS that won't be supported on older hardware.

BlackMagic Disk Speed Test shows late 2014 iMac 27" 5K internal SSD has read & write speed around 600 MB/s while 2019 iMac 27" 5K has 2000 MB/s write and 2400 MB/s read (noticeably faster).

macOS 10.15 Catalina system requirements for iMac is Late 2012 or newer model.

PetahChristian:

Chris Funkhouser:
What is the oldest computers you would consider upgrading?

I'd approach it from a different direction. What's the newest Apple refurbished model within your budget?

Apple Refurbished Mac models => https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac

Memory can easily be upgraded on 27" iMac models (while upgrading internal SSD is a hassle on newer iMac's since glass is taped to frame)

Geekbench includes Mac benchmarks => https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks (with Intel Core i9 in 2019 iMac having the fastest Single Core processor while Multi-Core i9 has similar speed as entry level Mac Pro & iMac Pro models)

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 498
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 27 2020 1:16 AM

Chris, 

You can reformat the computer to separate the SSD drive from the HDD in the eyes of the Mac operating system. They are combined using software, not hardware. So switching a few things can allow you to set them up as two separate drives so you have total control over what goes on them.

I have a 2017 27in IMac that came with a fusion drive (128GB SSD + 3 TB HDD). About a year ago I separated them and put my Logos installation completely on the SSD (well, everything except the resources. The resources are on the HDD since they’re huge, while the Logos program and index are on the SSD).

Google searches can teach you how to do it. Its not difficult; you just have to do a few commands in Terminal and then reformat and reinstall everything. If you do it to a brand new computer you wont have to reinstall anything but the operating system.

See here for exampLe: https://www.lifewire.com/split-fusion-drive-apart-2260166

As for offloading the resources onto the HDD, I learned how to do that from the forums here.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 27 2020 3:23 PM

Greg Masone:
As for offloading the resources onto the HDD, I learned how to do that from the forums here.

Logos wiki =>  Install in different folder or drive has Relocate your folder with Resources, Indexes, ... and Relocate your Resources folder

Thankful for a friend helping me in early 2020 to buy a refurbished 2019 iMac 27" 5K having 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9 with 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, & Radeon Pro 580x => https://www.apple.com/shop/product/GMVTMLL/A/Refurbished-27-inch-iMac-37GHz-6-core-Intel-Core-i5-with-Retina-5K-display along with an upgrade to 32 GB RAM with faster memory (CAS timing 15-17-17-37 instead of 19-19-19-43) that improved benchmark CPU scores by 5 %. But no effect on rebuilding Logos indexes: took 2 hours 14 minutes to index Logos 8.11 Beta's with 992 Bible resources, 29,018 Library resources, and 33 Personal Books (verified Logos Indexer and macOS used all available memory during indexing). Used an external macOS 10.15 USB to boot up refurbished iMac to partition 1 TB SSD into three 333 GB partitions:

  • macOS 10.14 Mojave (macintosh HD)
  • macOS 10.15 Catalina
  • macStuff

Relocated Logos4 and Verbum folders (in my user's Application Support) to macStuff partition so one installation of Logos4 and Verbum is "shared" by my macOS 10.14 and macOS 10.15 bootable partitions. Having an administrator macOS account own macStuff partition prevents my Logos/Verbum user account from accidentally changing macStuff partition. My Logos4 folder uses 132 GB (purchased library has 100 GB of resources with 23 GB Library Index) and Verbum folder uses 15 GB (order total of $ 0.00 includes Logos 7 & Logos 8 Fundamentals). When the next macOS is released later this year, likely will upgrade macOS 10.15 Catalina (so can keep macOS 10.14 Mojave for older 32 bit applications). For Time Machine, am using 1 TB external SSD (excluded Logos4 and Verbum folders on macStuff).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 54
Chris Funkhouser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2020 5:12 AM

So I wanted to update everyone who graciously gave there time to this thread. I did end up purchasing the Imac with the 4.0 i7 processor and Fusion drive. So far Logos has been working much faster than I am used to and I have not taken full advantage of all the optimization advice you guys gave.

Thanks to everyone who helped me out!

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