Page 1 of 1 (17 items)
This post has 16 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 689
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jun 24 2010 6:42 AM

In Genesis 26:8, we're told, "When [Issac] had been there a long time, Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out of a window and saw Isaac laughing with Rebekah his wife" (ESV). The translation footnote says, "Hebrew may suggest an intimate relationship."

Wanting to know more, and following the instruction of Dr. Heiser in the "Learning to Use Hebrew" DVD, here's my study on the word, "to laugh" or SAHEQ.

http://livingthebiblios.blogspot.com/2010/06/word-study-example-using-logos-learn-to.html

Posts 139
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 8:32 AM

Ted:

I think this is a great application of the video material. Can i suggest you add it to the wiki under http://wiki.logos.com/Learn_to_Use_Hebrew_videos so others will be able to find it easily in the future?

Posts 2855
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 9:21 AM

Excellent stuff, thanks for posting a link to your thoughts.

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 33796
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 12:00 PM

Well done Ted. Nice application of a word study.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 433
Vincent Setterholm | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 1:15 PM

The word study does a fine job of explaining the contextual clues that indicate that Abimelech saw more than a little chortling going on, but there is an important grammatical clue as well. In Hebrew (and English and I'd imagine most if not all human languages) some verbs generally take a direct object (e.g. I hit the ball) and some generally do not (e.g. 'He died', or 'I slept') and some verbs can occur with or without a direct object (sometimes with a change in meaning depending on which state you find them in). Verbs with a direct object we call 'transitive' and verbs without a direct object we call 'intransitive'. Some verbs that are intransitive in English might be transitive in their closest Hebrew equivalent, so you can't always reason just from the standpoint of English grammar, but in the case of 'laugh' and צחק, these verbs are generally intransitive. We can laugh 'with', 'at', or 'near' someone (that is, this verb regularly occurs with various prepositional phrases) but we don't generally 'laugh someone' or 'laugh something'. In the case of Genesis 26:8, צחק takes a direct object (Rebekah - note that many English translations feel the need to smooth this out by adding a preposition such as 'with' where none exists in the Hebrew). That's unusual and a pretty good grammatical indication that something euphemistic is going on.

The unabridged lexicons can do a fairly nice job of helping you spot these types of grammatical cues. For instance, the HALOT entry for צחק has:

—2. with אֵת to dally with, fondle a woman Gn 26:8

Of course, it helps to either look up אֵת or already know that it is the direct object marker to get the most from an entry like that - and a grasp of grammatical concepts like 'direct object', 'transitive' and 'intransitive' is assumed by the lexicon.

Posts 2855
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 2:28 PM

MJ. Smith:
Well done Ted.

I am not sure which Ted you are thankingStick out tongue.

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 33796
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 5:30 PM

Vincent Setterholm:
but there is an important grammatical clue as well. In Hebrew (and English and I'd imagine most if not all human languages) some verbs generally take a direct object (e.g. I hit the ball) and some generally do not (e.g. 'He died', or 'I slept') and some verbs can occur with or without a direct object (sometimes with a change in meaning depending on which state you find them in).

While we have your attention, is anyone doing work with verb frames for Hebrew or Koine Greek? I'd love to see frames in Logos.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 433
Vincent Setterholm | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 6:10 PM

MJ. Smith:
While we have your attention, is anyone doing work with verb frames for Hebrew or Koine Greek? I'd love to see frames in Logos.

That sounds like a great question for Dr. Runge. He's far deeper into the world of modern linguistics and discourse analysis than I am. Steve?

Posts 19333
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 6:21 PM

Vincent Setterholm:

MJ. Smith:
While we have your attention, is anyone doing work with verb frames for Hebrew or Koine Greek? I'd love to see frames in Logos.

That sounds like a great question for Dr. Runge. He's far deeper into the world of modern linguistics and discourse analysis than I am. Steve?

I doubt he's reading this forum. He's only ever posted once, about a month ago. I'd email him. His email address is publicized on Logos's bio page of him.

Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 8:03 PM

Ted Weis:

In Genesis 26:8, we're told, "When [Issac] had been there a long time, Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out of a window and saw Isaac laughing with Rebekah his wife" (ESV). The translation footnote says, "Hebrew may suggest an intimate relationship."

Wanting to know more, and following the instruction of Dr. Heiser in the "Learning to Use Hebrew" DVD, here's my study on the word, "to laugh" or SAHEQ.

http://livingthebiblios.blogspot.com/2010/06/word-study-example-using-logos-learn-to.html

 

 

 

 

Posts 689
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 24 2010 8:53 PM

The word study is now added. Included with it are the helpful grammatical observations of Vincent Setterholm.

http://wiki.logos.com/Word_Studies_Using_Concepts_Taught_in_Hebrew_Videos

Posts 57
LogosEmployee
Steve Runge | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 6:29 AM

Hi MJ,

I'd need to know a bit more about what you mean by a verb frame to know whether I'm working on it or not. I know Paul Danove is doing some great work with Case Frames, but not sure if this is what you mean. If it is, Mike Aubrey is your guy. The Danove link is to a review Mike did on verbs of transference.

Presently I am trying to complete the final read of the Discourse Grammar of the Greek New Testament for the print edition. A couple weeks ago we recorded a discourse workshop offered in Bellingham, so there is about 16 hours of teaching and application to accompany the grammar, once Reuben completes the post-production. Then I'll head back to the High Definition Commentary along with the OT discourse analysis.

Regarding Rosie's comment about not commenting, she is unfortunately dead on. I'll work on cruising the forums more.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 7:31 AM

Steven Runge:
A couple weeks ago we recorded a discourse workshop offered in Bellingham, so there is about 16 hours of teaching and application to accompany the grammar, once Reuben completes the post-production.

Steve,

Are you hinting this footage might be available to us one of these days??

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 7:33 AM

Vincent Setterholm:
That's unusual and a pretty good grammatical indication that something euphemistic is going on.

 

Wow...something I hadn't considered...very nice Vincent...thanks very much for the insight.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 57
LogosEmployee
Steve Runge | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 11:53 AM

Rob,

The bigger purpose behind offering the recent Greek discourse workshop was to capture raw footage that could be edited into something along the lines of the 'Learn to use Greek Tools' project that recently shipped. We are still finalizing the details, so look for a prepub of the project in the coming weeks. Which "one of those days" it will be, I will not hazard to guess. It is off the drawing board, but not quite under production. Stay tuned.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 12:01 PM

Steven Runge:
The bigger purpose behind offering the recent Greek discourse workshop was to capture raw footage that could be edited into something along the lines of the 'Learn to use Greek Tools' project that recently shipped. We are still finalizing the details, so look for a prepub of the project in the coming weeks. Which "one of those days" it will be, I will not hazard to guess. It is off the drawing board, but not quite under production. Stay tuned.

 

Woo hoo! that's good new Steve!

Looking forward to it...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 657
Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 6:05 PM

Steven Runge:
recent Greek discourse workshop

Will it be "free" like the seminar? JK...do you have any kind of price in mind...I really wanted to come to the seminar, but other duties (church camp, etc.) would not permit me to attend. Looking forward to the videos.

Page 1 of 1 (17 items) | RSS