References - 2nd Temple and Beyond

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Feb 19 2020 7:24 PM

I ran across this statement:

The later Karaite Jews rejected all of the additional books beyond the Torah and accepted only the laws of Moses, but their views did not eventually carry the day.

Lee Martin McDonald, The Formation of the Biblical Canon, vol. 1 (London; Oxford; New York; New Delhi; Sydney: Bloomsbury; Bloomsbury T&T Clark: An Imprint of Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, 2017), 373.

McDonald does not provide a source for this statement; it disagrees with the resources I know. Does anyone know of a resource that backs McDonald's statement?

I just want to be sure I haven't missed something as there is a reasonable explanation for his error.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 19 2020 7:40 PM

Not answering your question, but his statement sounds familiar ... if I remember (I know, totally useless), it was in a DSS > Samaritans discussion, or in reverse, late Palestine Christians, tracing earlier origins discussion. My brain 'locates it' just nortwest of Sebaste! True.

Sorry. I'm reading the Australian lady's Enoch book, and the only way to keep track was a huge mind-map!

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 19 2020 8:11 PM

Denise:
if I remember (I know, totally useless), it was in a DSS > Samaritans discussion, or in reverse

That would be a reasonable context ... I may search it. All my sources say they reject the Oral Torah but accept the MT canon ... it matters in tracking down the Sadduccees --> Samaritan vs Sadduccees --> Karaites debate ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 19 2020 10:23 PM

In my library, the resource that has the best discussion, though pre-DSS, is Lightfoot Vol 5 Sect 6 'Of the Sadducees'. But following his 'line' leads to Avoth chap 1, Josephus, and the labels start becoming suspect (Karaite as a Scripturalist).  But early wording is clearly Moses (Torah); not an MT contraption of later vintage. The discuss'ers begin surmising an MT-like canon from Temple worship (Psalms and Prophets).

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 20 2020 1:35 AM

Thank you ... that is a big help and may also point to the same name being applied to two groups of people centuries apart but with some common characteristics.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Chrisser | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 20 2020 6:42 AM

I'm sorry for being off topic but my brain just translated that as To Infinity and Beyond!

I couldn't help posting that.
:D

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Hermann Fritz | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 20 2020 6:54 AM

I found this statement in my library:

The Sadducees were not in all respects as the later Caraites. Some things which they denied, the Caraites believed; and some things which they upheld, the Caraites neglected. Yet the ground principle of both sects was the same—opposition to tradition and jealous attachment to the text of the law. Caraism was the resuscitation and regeneration of Sadducism, a thousand years after its first birth.

Brigham, C. H. (1864). The Caraites. Bibliotheca Sacra, 21(81), 40–41.

Brigham´s text on the Karaites is quite detailed. This is structured as follows:

Caraites, The, article on, by Rev. Charles H. Brigham, 39; residence of the Caraites in Jerusalem, 39; origin of their name, 40; the sect but little known, 40; the origin of Caraism, 40; Caraism, a resuscitation of Sadducism, 41; the Caraites, as resembling the ancient Sadducees, 42; a preparation for Caraism in the inventions of the Maronites, 43; the labors of Acha and Mocha, 43; of Chahib and Pinchas, 43; a preparation for Caraism in the pretended Messiahs of the eighth century, 44; Anan ben David, the founder of the sect, 47; he taught the spirituality of God, 49; his views of Christ and the founder of Islam, 49; his method in the interpretation of the scriptures, 50; his alteration of the Jewish Calendar, 50; his theory of the Sabbath, 52; claims for new religious teachers a respectful hearing, 53; and the right and duty of free inquiry, 53; proclaims the duty of missionary labor and the dignity of the prophetic office, 54; four peculiarities of the Caraites, 55; death of Anan—his successors, 55; Nissi ben Noah, 56; Benjamin ben Moses, 57; Daniel ben Moses el Kumassi, 58; Schodgan, 59; the progress of Caraism, greatly influenced by two Moslem sects, 60; Caraite doctors in the latter half of the ninth century, 60; Eldad ha Dani, 60; Chawi-el-Balchi, 61; the Caraites of this period not rationalists, 62; the highest stage of Caraism in the year 900, 63; some communities of Caraites still remaining, 64.

Mead, C. M. (1864). Recent German Theological Literature. Bibliotheca Sacra, 21(84), 887–890.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 20 2020 1:33 PM

Chrisser:
I'm sorry for being off topic but my brain just translated that as To Infinity and Beyond!

Not off topic - deliberate on my part. 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 20 2020 1:36 PM

Thank you Herman, slowly I'm able to fit more pieces together.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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