Practical use for the" Learning to useGreek and Hebrew" videos

First off I wanted to let Logos staff know that I will be calling them on Monday to order replacement DVD's. Mine arrived in a substandard cardboard mailer that didn't protect them from rough handling while in transit. Both DVD's were scratched on the read surface and one was nicked on the outer circumference. I really expected more from a quality Bible software company like Logos.

Secondly I am not sure how to interact with them as shown in the sample preview videos: http://www.logos.com/products/details/5876

From what I can tell all that I received were videos, not software as depicted in the preview videos. Am I missing something?

Thanks, Tony

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Robert Pavich

Tony,

I don't work for Logos so I cannot comment on the condition of your DVD's...however, they are a company who will do what it takes to remedy the situation.

On the other point, the DVD's are only videos about how to use Logos software...you must be an owner of the software itself, to use what's found in the videos.

Do you own any Logos software package?

Paul Golder

From what I can tell all that I received were videos

They are videos only, the software is a separate purchase

From the product page:

Additional
Details

Over 15 hours of content taught by Dr. Mike Heiser and Johnny
Cisneros using Logos 4. That is equivalent content of an entire college
class!

Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional
Greek and Hebrew classes.

Videos come on 2 DVD-ROMs. The DVDs are designed for your
computer and will not play in a normal DVD player. The videos are
formatted in h.264 (HD) and optimized for Quicktime 7 and Windows Media
Player 12.

A web-like user interface is included.

Leave the content on the DVD, or copy it to your hard drive.

All videos have chapter markers, so you can easily navigate to
the exact spot you need.

No knowledge of Greek or Hebrew is required. Even English
grammar is explained.

No rote memorization of vocabulary lists, grammatical forms, or
paradigms.

Scholar’s Library
is recommended. Also recommended, but not required: BDAG and A Concise Hebrew
and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (Holladay).

Tony Shoemaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142748#Comment_142748

I have the Logos Bible Software 3 Leaders Library.

I read the additional details that you so kindly referenced, but did I misunderstand? Is the Scholors Library REQUIRED or is the Leaders Library sufficient.

Please let me know what additional resources are Required in order to get full benifit from this product.

Thanks for your help, Tony

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142757#Comment_142757

Is the Scholors Library REQUIRED

Well, the sales page said recommended. I would recommend it as well. The reasoning for them recommending this package that you may not get with the Leader's Library are the original language tools. If you take a look here http://www.logos.com/comparison more than half-way down you will see that there are basically 6 "language" resources. As they mention, BDAG is recommended but that is not as high. Others have said that BDAG is extremely important to really study the origninal languages but you can add this on later. I just went back to that comparison page and notice some of the features and databases that you do not have. It seems that some of those things would be used in the language work that are not in the Leader's. I very much think these dvd's are worth it especially for non language trained people. If you have the discs. Keep them. They are worth it....Just save them until you can afford the upgrade to Scholar's. I have not thought about this but the Original Language package might be enough for these. Again the thing that might be missing are some of the commentaries.

Hope this helps.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142757#Comment_142757

I have the Logos Bible Software 3 Leaders Library.

I read the additional details that you so kindly referenced, but did I misunderstand? Is the Scholors Library REQUIRED or is the Leaders Library sufficient.

Please let me know what additional resources are Required in order to get full benifit from this product.

The product description page says that Scholars Library is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED. It doesn't say required. You can still do some of the stuff from the videos in your Leader's library, but you will be limited in what you can do. Once you get the replacement DVDs (I'm sure Logos will gladly replace the defective ones for you for no charge) you can watch them and decide later if the limitations are such that you really want to upgrade to Scholar's. Only you can make that decision. The resource and feature differences between Scholar's and Leader's Library are listed on the comparison chart. Scroll down and look under "Original Language Grammars and Tools," "Original Language Lexicons," and "Features and Databases." In my opinion, the Bible Word Study features missing in Leader's Library would severely cripple your ability to follow along and do the things shown in the video. I haven't watched more than the first three videos of the Hebrew lessons yet, though. It could be that there would be other major gaps in your experience. If you decide after watching a number of the videos that it just isn't going to work for you with Leader's Library and you can't afford to upgrade to Scholar's, I'm sure Logos will honor their 30-day refund policy, even once they've already sent you a replacement for the defective DVDs.

Sam West

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142748#Comment_142748

All videos have chapter markers, so you can easily navigate to the exact spot you need.

will someone direct me to the chapter markers?

please how do you highlight in a reply?

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142854#Comment_142854

All videos have chapter markers, so you can easily navigate to the exact spot you need.

will someone direct me to the chapter markers?

I am wondering the same thing. I can see when the video moves to a new chapter, because the new chapter title shows up in the lower right covern of my QuickTime player. But I don't see any minute markings or chapter markings along the scroll bar so I don't know where to drag the scroll thumb to in order to get to a particular chapter. I have to do it by trial and error.

please how do you highlight in a reply?

You're talking about a reply on the forum, I presume? Are you asking how to use background shading within your own text in in a reply? Or are you asking how to quote another person's reply in that shaded box?

For #1: (While not composing a reply) Click Edit in the upper right corner of the Forum screen, to edit your profile. Click "Site Options." For Content Editor, select "Enhanced." Click Save down at the bottom of this screen. Click Save again down at the bottom of the next screen. Now next time you're editing a reply, you should have a control available that lets you apply background color to any selected text.

For #2: Don't use the Quick Reply link at the lower right of a post, but rather use the Reply button at the upper right of it. (Optionally) select the portion of the person's message that you want to quote (otherwise by default it will quote the whole thing). Click the blue "Quote" link at the bottom of the message you're responding to.

Sean Boisen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142858#Comment_142858

I can see when the video moves to a new chapter, because the new chapter title shows up in the lower right covern of my QuickTime player. But I don't see any minute markings or chapter markings along the scroll bar so I don't know where to drag the scroll thumb to in order to get to a particular chapter. I have to do it by trial and error.

If you are using the QuickTime player, the lower right corner is actually a pop-up menu that you can use to select a chapter, and the video will play from that point. I don't think that information shows up on the scroll bar, though.

Tony Shoemaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142773#Comment_142773

[

The product description page says that Scholars Library is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED. It doesn't say required. You can still do some of the stuff from the videos in your Leader's library, but you will be limited in what you can do. Once you get the replacement DVDs (I'm sure Logos will gladly replace the defective ones for you for no charge) you can watch them and decide later if the limitations are such that you really want to upgrade to Scholar's. Only you can make that decision. The resource and feature differences between Scholar's and Leader's Library are listed on the comparison chart. Scroll down and look under "Original Language Grammars and Tools," "Original Language Lexicons," and "Features and Databases." In my opinion, the Bible Word Study features missing in Leader's Library would severely cripple your ability to follow along and do the things shown in the video. I haven't watched more than the first three videos of the Hebrew lessons yet, though. It could be that there would be other major gaps in your experience. If you decide after watching a number of the videos that it just isn't going to work for you with Leader's Library and you can't afford to upgrade to Scholar's, I'm sure Logos will honor their 30-day refund policy, even once they've already sent you a replacement for the defective DVDs.

Thanks for your very informative response. I upgraded my software to the Scholars Library and am looking forward to studying God's word in the original language. I also wanted to commend Sue at customer support and Santiago in sales. Both individuals were extremely helpful. Replacement software is on the way for discs that were damaged in transit... no hassels at all. Thanks Logos.

Might I suggest that your description of the videos emphasize that they are best utilized with Logos 4 Software generally and The Scholars Library specifically as opposed to just “recommending” them. Thanks again…

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/143000#Comment_143000

If you are using the QuickTime player, the lower right corner is actually a pop-up menu that you can use to select a chapter, and the video will play from that point

Thank you for that valuable bit of information. I had not noticed the little carets before.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/143160#Comment_143160

Might I suggest that your description of the videos emphasize that they are best utilized with Logos 4 Software generally and The Scholars Library specifically as opposed to just “recommending” them. Thanks again…

The title of the videos is "Learn to Use Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software," and under Additional Details it says "Over 15 hours of content taught by Dr. Mike Heiser and Johnny Cisneros using Logos 4." I don't know how much clearer that can get, besides perhaps putting it in boldface like I just did.

I agree that they should probably increase the emphasis on Scholar's Library (which implies Logos 4 because you can't buy it for Logos 3 anymore and it isn't a standalone library -- it comes with and requires Logos Bible Software), by adding the word "strongly" before "recommended." The authors have expressed as much to us here on the forum.

Greg Hoerter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/143197#Comment_143197

does anyone know if the Note Files for these videos are available? I have been typing them as I'm going through the videos, but it's distracting. Maybe it's possible to just download them from the authors?

I'm learning a lot, but want to focus on the content rather than pausing to type out the notes.

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/150370#Comment_150370

does anyone know if the Note Files for these videos are available?

Haven't heard of any yet.

But here is what i copied from L4's notes on the video Hebrew07 Verbs

7266.Notes in Heb07 Verbs.doc

Edit: the bold text is the title for each note. The normal text under them goes in the body of that note. All these i put into a single note file named Heb07- Verbs

Edit2: i've built several of the charts, but Logos might frown on putting them up publicly here.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/150370#Comment_150370

does anyone know if the Note Files for these videos are available? I have been typing them as I'm going through the videos, but it's distracting. Maybe it's possible to just download them from the authors?

I'm learning a lot, but want to focus on the content rather than pausing to type out the notes.

I have not seen them - but I expect a number of us would appreciate seeing the notes you are creating. I would prefer some notes that I can mark-up - either with LOGOS or with PDF Annotator. I don't know how LOGOS would feel about this though - it would be far better if they published a "text" that could parallel the lectures.

Jason B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/150370#Comment_150370

Yes, I have been wishing Logos would post the note files for us to download, as I like the concise wording and I am too lazy to want to type it all myself at the moment, so that would be wonderful if they would compile that and give it to us to download...

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/150870#Comment_150870

I don't want to make anyone mad at me but I think your wanting a bit too much.

Personally, I am glad I don't have the notes already typed for me. Each of us will find different things notable about the videos. It is a proven fact that if we are required to write something ourselves as opposed to "read" it....we will remember more and thus learn it for ourselves.

Ok, I will stand back and allow the food to come flying.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/150870#Comment_150870

Yes, I have been wishing Logos would post the note files for us to download, as I like the concise wording and I am too lazy to want to type it all myself at the moment, so that would be wonderful if they would compile that and give it to us to download...

I have suggested it and got this reply: "That’s a great suggestion Rosie: Kent has passed it along to Reuben Evans, who’s coordinating our forum posts and other follow-up for the Learn to Use products." Then Reuben replied: "This may be something we can do in the future, but right now we are focused on tightening up the editing. I think that is going to be our focus for the next few weeks."

I agree that fixing the editing should be their first priority, but it's good that they might consider providing the notes in the future. For those who don't like that idea (William), you wouldn't have to use them. To each his own. I too think I'd learn something by typing them in myself, but I doubt I'd ever get around to it.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/150998#Comment_150998

It is a proven fact that if we are required to write something ourselves as opposed to "read" it....we will remember more and thus learn it for ourselves.

I agree.

Ok, I will stand back and allow the food to come flying.

No food, I ate it.

I too think I'd learn something by typing them in myself, but I doubt I'd ever get around to it.

Rosie! I thought you could do all things with time to spare. [8-|]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151091#Comment_151091

Rosie! I thought you could do all things with time to spare.

Ugh! I wish. I never seem to have enough time to do all the things I want to do, in spite of sacrificing sleep over them. You don't know how many projects I am in the middle of that I haven't finished because I got sidetracked by another one. There are a few pages on the wiki that are a lasting legacy of my habit of biting off more than I can chew. It's been a lifelong problem. In my kindergarten report card there was a note from the teacher saying I had trouble completing tasks started. I'm still habitually late for deadlines. All those "things I do with time to spare" are usually things I didn't really have time for but did instead of something else that I was procrastinating on. I'm really efficient at doing stuff that doesn't really need to get done! [:)]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151131#Comment_151131

gh! I wish. I never seem to have enough time to do all the things I want to do

I understand completely.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151131#Comment_151131

All those "things I do with time to spare" are usually things I didn't really have time for but did instead of something else that I was procrastinating on. I'm really efficient at doing stuff that doesn't really need to get done!

Roise,

Please find attached, your list of tasks for this week. Note the last one is not at all important, but is maybe the most interesting one. I fear it will take more time than its worth, which is a shame, given what it could be, given enough time.

<some name>
Team Leader

[:)]

I think I too, would want to do the last, and little of the others ...

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151216#Comment_151216

All those "things I do with time to spare" are usually things I didn't really have time for but did instead of something else that I was procrastinating on. I'm really efficient at doing stuff that doesn't really need to get done!

Roise,

Please find attached, your list of tasks for this week. Note the last one is not at all important, but is maybe the most interesting one. I fear it will take more time than its worth, which is a shame, given what it could be, given enough time.

<some name>
Team Leader

I think I too, would want to do the last, and little of the others ...

Ha! And given that I'm my own boss, I'm entirely responsible for choosing the items that go on that task list. So I've nobody to blame but myself when the ones that are least important are the most interesting and fun, and yet also usually the most time consuming.

Ron Corbett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142858#Comment_142858

Don't use the Quick Reply link at the lower right of a post, but rather use the Reply button at the upper right of it. (Optionally) select the portion of the person's message that you want to quote (otherwise by default it will quote the whole thing). Click the blue "Quote" link at the bottom of the message you're responding to.

Rosie,

Is there a WIKI on this procedure? May I suggest it if it doesn't already exist?

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152518#Comment_152518

Is there a WIKI on this procedure?

See this subcategory on this wiki page look for item #4

Then look on that same wiki page for the category Reply Post editor

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152601#Comment_152601

Is there a WIKI on this procedure?

See this subcategory on this wiki page look for item #4

Then look on that same wiki page for the category Reply Post editor

Both of those links, Steve, result in the following:

"Sorry, there was a problem with your last request!" Just wanted you to know.

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152604#Comment_152604

"Sorry, there was a problem with your last request!" Just wanted you to know.

Thanks Joan !

copy/paste booboo. They are now fixed in that post reply now. although they probably are not fixed in your quoted links.

Dennis Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/142771#Comment_142771

I opted for the Original Languages upgrade and added the BDAG separately which together was still less than the Scholar package which has a lot of books and stuff I am really not interested in. I have not started the course and was a little disappointed in some of the issues it had when released. For the money you would think the disks would have been printed up with the proper logos version and all files reviewed and edited for proper content before release.