2.04 GB of Downloads: Another call for selective downloads please

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Posts 64
Eric Ross | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 8 2010 1:24 PM

BITS doesn't solve the problem if your internet router(called an Internet Gateway Device in the paper) is not configured correctly.    The following all need to occur:

1)  The device supports counters.(list of devices that support counters?)
2)  UPnP is enabled.  (often disabled for security reasons but usually on by default)
3)  Server outside the subnet (if you are on the same subnet you work for Logos and you probably don't have update issues)
4)  The gateway device returns counter data in less than 200 ticks (I think that means time, not the parasite. Not sure where to get this information--assume routers are fast enough).

Otherwise, it uses percentages of your local LAN card.  Since my home network is mostly 100MB and UPnP is disabled, I would guess that 10% of my bandwidth would be about 10Mb.  My outside connection is only 1Mb or less so BITS does not really do any throttling. Having to reconfigure my network so that Logos can be a good boy, seems a bit extreme.  Also, there is no mention if there is any throttling available on the Mac since BITS is a Microsoft feature. 

There is a workaround:  Note that the referenced paper has a way to force BITS to use less bandwidth regardless of how it measures your network by setting the MaxInternetBandwidth policy. (see paper for how to do this).

Referenced paper:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363133(v=VS.85).aspx

 

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 8 2010 6:09 PM

rpe@evross.com:
Having to reconfigure my network so that Logos can be a good boy, seems a bit extreme.

Having to configure your hardware so it does what your software wants it to, is the way computers work. In this case Logos 4 is all set up to play nicely, the problem is your hardware configuration.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 8 2010 6:50 PM

rpe@evross.com:
There is a workaround:  Note that the referenced paper has a way to force BITS to use less bandwidth

Very interesting link. If you can find Group Policy (my XP's Help and Support told me it was gpedit.msc) then it is possible to configure BITS bandwidth use:-

eg. have a speed of 200 Kbps between certain (night) hours otherwise limit to 30 Kbps OR  30Kbps during the day and 200 Kbps at other times.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 669
Michael Lyman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 8 2010 7:23 PM

Bob. I just want to thank you for writing a detailed, sensible response. It makes perfect sense to me and I appreciate finally getting such a good answer!

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 8 2010 10:46 PM

Dave Hooton:

nicky crane:
What I have done successfully is to restart the computer.

You did not cancel the download, just restart the computer?

 

Correct. I did not cancel the download, just restarted the computer.

Incidentally I realise I exaggerated, claiming to be  downloading 6 days and 6 nights - it was only 5 days and 5 nights!  The stress of the download  time disoriented my basic mathematical capability!

And MAny thanks for helpful demonstration of how I might configure BITS.  That would really solve my problem.  Then the download can take 2 weeks if it wants and the stress goes out of it!  Will try it.  I have Vista.

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 3:56 AM

nicky crane:
And MAny thanks for helpful demonstration of how I might configure BITS.  That would really solve my problem.  Then the download can take 2 weeks if it wants and the stress goes out of it!  Will try it.  I have Vista.

It may not be possible on all versions of Windows. I have XP Pro but couldn't configure Group Policy on Win 7 Home, despite what Help and Support stated! It should be possible on Business/Pro versions.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 5:17 AM

Dave Hooton:
It may not be possible on all versions of Windows. I have XP Pro but couldn't configure Group Policy on Win 7 Home

For the moment, I don't remember the details, but the HOME version(s) of Vista exclude many of the higher-end Enterprise bits of plumbing. I.E. The stuff that expects to work with servers, Domain Controller, and all that kind of thing. Its partly to make it cheaper/smaller/faster, and to maybe ensure you buy the more expensive licensed products for at work. I expect the Home version(s) of Windows 7 does the same general idea. Part of what is excluded is the Group Policy editor tools and some of those kinds of thing.

I forget how, but I think its still possible to introduce the BITS Group Policy settings with maybe a file or tool of some kind. I used to mess with some of these kinds of things for work, but have not touched Group Policy for a year or two now.

If there is the need/interest me or someone that knows/remembers, can explore this in more detail.

It may be possible to provide some simple tool that allows this aspect of control over BITS for the issue reported in this thread. Ideally, a simple and safe way to control BITS at will, so it can be set to a high portion of the actual bandwidth, rather than the 10 or 100 mbits/sc of the LAN port of the PC in question.

It makes me wonder if this same "fix" might allow me to address my own issues with sometimes getting download speeds of 5 or 10 KB from Logos. It can take me hours at times. The last 2 GB took 8-12 hours - I forget now, but it was all day. I could have got a 2 GB *.ISO from Microsoft.com in an hour or two, at something close to 4 mbits/sec broadband at that time the 2 GB was downloading from Logos. Maybe its a BITS issue for me too?

 

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 5:39 AM

OK, I just opened the Group Policy Editor on my copy of Windows Vista Pro.

Using the graphic from above to find the right entry (thanks), the help message for the setting is most interesting.

Many users of Logos Bible Software may well be connected back to their network hub, WiFi Node, or Broadband Router at speeds of 10 or 100 MBits/sec for wired, and something like 11 or 56 or whatever for WiFi etc. In general, your actually speed off the Internet will be much slower. In my case, my raw clocked internet data rate is 4 mbits, but the laptop thinks its talking much faster to my router.

I'll write more here in due course if I have something to add. Others with good answers should of course please speak up.

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 6:40 AM

nicky crane:
And MAny thanks for helpful demonstration of how I might configure BITS.  That would really solve my problem.  Then the download can take 2 weeks if it wants and the stress goes out of it!  Will try it.  I have Vista.

Nicky,

It seems BITS attempts to work out how fast your network can go, and then limit how much it uses. All very nice, but as others have written above, it depends on a number of things being set up "just so", otherwise it uses best effort. Clearly, for your setup, its getting it wrong and not at all working well.

The Group Policy talk above, is the "official" way to manage all kinds of things for a computer setup. Often, it turns out to just be a number of settings in the Windows Registry. In the case of BITS, this is the case, so its possible to skip all the Group Policy stuff, and use a simple registry update file.

Note all the normal warnings about messing with registry entries apply. If you don't want to touch such things, stay away, or get additional help or advice first.

I have attached a registry settings file below, that contains the key aspects for controlling the max rates for BITS. The file is a txt file, so its safe to download, look at, print or edit as you like. If someone wants to use it (apply the settings in it), it would first need to be renamed to something.reg and then clicked to make it run.

Another warning: Normally downloading any kind of registry stuff from the internet, and running it, should be done with extreme caution, or not at all. The same applies here. However, this information is provided in the event that someone wants to explore this for their own use.

The file as supplied, is set for VERY SMALL limits, using my Group Policy editor as shown below. A new 1 or 2 MB book will still download sometime soon, but a large Logos update would take forever with those settings.

Note also, the values in the *.reg file are in hexidecimal, not decimal. The Windows Calculator allows these conversions. Start by making sure you can see how the attached file matches the graphic that created it.

My suggestion, if someone wants to continue with using this is:

  1. Be sure you are happy with the general idea here, otherwise walk away now, and leave this all alone
  2. Download the text file here and save it somewhere so you can read it and edit it as required. Make sure you are happy it only contains entries about BITS, and is not something nasty!
  3. Make a few copies of it, with names that suit: Examples bits_40kb.txt, bits_100kb.txt, bits_250kb.txt and so on according to your needs and network.
  4. Edit the values within the files to suit the values you want. Maybe one for slow_bits, and another for fast_bits is all you need.
  5. Once edited, rename or copy from name.txt to name.reg, and then run (double-click) to apply those settings

I have no idea, but its possible the new values only take effect after a reboot. If so, for those that know how and want, I expect restarting the BITS Service would have the same effect.

NOTE: Do not stop or restart the BITS Service if the Logos4 Indexer is running, otherwise it will crash with a COM error, and will abort any current downloads and any indexing running. The results will be unpredictible, so I suggest don't do it.

Anway, if someone knows they have an effective broadband speed of, for example, 256kbits/sec, you might want to make a bits.reg file for some 25% or 50% or whatever of that.

Anyone reading this, and has no real idea what I'm saying here, please just walk away and don't try this. I've provided this in good faith for those that need or want to understand and try this.

If unsure, but you still want something like above, wait until a few others that undersand these points have given their feedback too. They might say leave it all alone, or they might say it sounds fine. Wait and see first is best maybe, if you are unsure.

Sorry this is so long, but messing with some of the deep stuff inside Windows can lead to pain if it all goes wrong.

My key refs for this article include: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa362844.aspx

6646.BITS_reg.txt

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 6:48 AM

Rats!!!

The file should look like below. You will need to edit the line breaks if you want to try this. I already attempted to upload it again, but it still came out looking wrong.

 

 

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\BITS]
"EnableBITSMaxBandwidth"=dword:00000001
"MaxTransferRateOnSchedule"=dword:00000014
"MaxBandwidthValidFrom"=dword:00000008
"MaxBandwidthValidTo"=dword:00000011
"MaxTransferRateOffSchedule"=dword:00000028

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 7:44 AM

JimT:
The file should look like below.

Very useful Jim.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 8:03 AM

Thank you, Jim.  In fact I dare not play about with my registry!  I'll see if I can get to BITS configuration as administrator, but doubt it as I have only Vista Home.

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 8:16 AM

nicky crane:
Thank you, Jim.  In fact I dare not play about with my registry!

Nicky,

Maybe I over-stated all the cautions I gave. Sad

I think, with Vista Home, you wont have the Group Policy Editor tool, so can't so it the graphic way that Dave wrote earlier, and that I posted too.

Let us know what practical levels you think your network runs at, and what portion you are happy for BITS to use when there are downloads to process, and Dave or myself with make you the settings file with those values.

The limits will be of no effect for day-to-day usage, but will kick in next time there are bigger Logos downloads that need to run for hours or days.

I think what I documented above will permit the limits you need with Vista Home.

Lets see what Dave thinks, but please, let us know what your network speeds tend to be, and what portion you want set in the file(s).

- Jim

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 8:36 AM

JimT:
let us know what your network speeds tend to be, and what portion you want set in the file(s).

The risk with a .reg file is low - very similar to setting up Diagnostic Logging!

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 9:57 AM

Thank you, Jim and Dave.  I'll try to work out what I want and take up your kind offer.  I do appreciate it.

If I  did run into problems changing my registry, could I solve them with a system restore to before the changes?

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 10:05 AM

Nicki, you can backup your registry before making any registry edits. It's very simple, and you can restore the registry painlessly. It's actually very difficult to do anything drastic to the registry unless you have no backups and you really try to run rampant.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 24560
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 9 2010 3:10 PM

nicky crane:
If I  did run into problems changing my registry, could I solve them with a system restore to before the changes?

You can create a restore point beforehand and we can also provide a file to Undo the change.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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