SUGGESTION: PB Bibles Improvements or Bug Report

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Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 10:42 AM

I know you worship Logos as many here in the forums. But I don't. For me Logos is a tool and if it would serve me better with some extra features, I request this features. 

What are you afraid of? What make you fearful about my request? Is not the forum here to make request? 

I disagree with the statement. 

Looking at Bible resources in my Library shows every one has a single Bible index using a single verse map (with my custom Series connecting different Bible Verse Maps for Book navigation). To me, "partly why" in Bradley's answer implies changing resource handling for more than one Bible Verse Map has corollary changes in Bible Indexing, Search, Personal Book Builder, Resource Information, Metadata syncing, ... (non-trivial change from single Bible verse map per resource to correctly handling many Bible verse maps)

As the "Bible" is made upon Milestones this Milestones are the angle not the whole Bible. This is the case for the Milestone in general. Not? If the PBB can broken up into the books sections. This wouldn't affect the parallel scrolling with other Bibles or with a commentary. For example: The PBB uses KJV except for Romans then to scroll in Romans wouldn't corrupt the parallel scrolling with a commentary, as the commentary is also done per Bible book.

Fabian 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 1:47 PM

Thankful for my ongoing Holy worship of יהוה Big Smile that includes being Thankful for answered prayers Gift

Thankful for Logos & Verbum Bible Software tools Geeked that includes my favorite feature of Visual Filter highlighting.

Thankful for Faithlife Corporation CEO providing Personal Book usage insights (under 1 % of all Logos & Verbum users) => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/126859/848584.aspx#848584 (noted lack of business incentive for Faithlife to spend more money improving Personal Book tool plus 20/20 hindsight that free Logos 4 Personal Book tool should have needed a subscription like Libronix 3 for future development costs). Faithlife is actively developing/improving Sermon Builder/Manager (Logos 9) & Homily Builder/Manager (Verbum 9).

Thankful for free Personal Book tool => American Standard Version 1901 - Personal Bible without Chapter and Verse #'s that helped me experience Bible verse map of milestones for Text Comparison (so needed to change @Bible to @BibleKJV in a Personal Book Bible), which has been super-ceded by Logos & Verbum feature to show/hide chapter & verse numbers, which works in most Bibles.

Thankful for many friendly forum and Faithlife discussions: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn Geeked (includes reading multitude of forum Suggestions, UserVoice, & Feedback while seeing a subset implemented as Faithlife Corporation has lots of choices for development prioritization)

Fabian:

As the "Bible" is made upon Milestones this Milestones are the angle not the whole Bible. This is the case for the Milestone in general. Not? If the PBB can broken up into the books sections. This wouldn't affect the parallel scrolling with other Bibles or with a commentary. For example: The PBB uses KJV except for Romans then to scroll in Romans wouldn't corrupt the parallel scrolling with a commentary, as the commentary is also done per Bible book.

Bible milestones correspond to Bible verse map, which has location translation for Bible verse map locations in different resources for linked navigation: e.g. parallel scrolling. Current design is one Bible Verse map for all Bible milestones in one resource, which is non-trivial to modify (trivially different in Personal Book document while needing substantial software changes to transparently handle Bible milestone mappings coherently). Work around is using Series to link resources with different Bible Verse mapping of milestones for chapter & verse navigation. If Series has more than one resource with chapter & verse for navigation, alphabetically first resource appears (works OK in my custom Top 2 Commentary Series that has more than one commentary for Bible books).

Keep Smiling Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 2:50 PM

Fabian:
I know you worship Logos as many here in the forums. But I don't. For me Logos is a tool and if it would serve me better with some extra features, I request this features. 

No need to make personal, false swipes.  And it is generally best to believe Bradley who knows the actual code. The side-effects of a change are usually more dependent on the code than the logical data structure. However, you have an absolute right, and I encourage you to, make suggestions.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 230
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 2:54 PM

Thanks for your answer for what you are thankful. But again what do you fear?

I still keep on my position: This feature would be easily to implement. And I want it. 

Bible milestones correspond to Bible verse map, which has location translation for Bible verse map locations in different resources for linked navigation: e.g. parallel scrolling. Current design is one Bible Verse map for all Bible milestones in one resource, which is non-trivial to modify (trivially different in Personal Book document while needing substantial software changes to transparently handle Bible milestone mappings coherently). Work around is using Series to link resources with different Bible Verse mapping of milestones for chapter & verse navigation. If Series has more than one resource with chapter & verse for navigation, alphabetically first resource appears (works OK in my custom Top 2 Commentary Series that has more than one commentary for Bible books).

What you explain isn't a problem. Every Milestone is "linked" to a master list. Besides this list are the verse mappings of the different Bibles. This list is flexible, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to add for Logos a new Bible which has a different verse mapping. If I create a PBB it follows one of those Bible lists. It is possible to develop for Logos the feature we can jump for the different Bible books to follow a different verse mapping. 

I see more you will not. And instead you advocate for the users you make yourself as a firewall for Logos. Do you have nothing better to do? Are you bored otherwise? As you say, you are happy with the new features. So would I with this feature. 

Fabian

Posts 230
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 2:58 PM

MJ. Smith:

Fabian:
I know you worship Logos as many here in the forums. But I don't. For me Logos is a tool and if it would serve me better with some extra features, I request this features. 

No need to make personal, false swipes. 

Personal: Yes. False: No. 

I have seen no other forum where the users fall down on the knee for the software than here. This is not normal here. Just simply read some answers I get from users here and you come to the same conclusion. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 2:59 PM

Fabian:
But again what do you fear?

As a mature Christian, I fear very little. But at the moment I do fear for my country (politics deleted)

P.S. You can essentially do what you want now by making each book(s) using a particular verse map a separate book and connecting them via a common series.

PPS. I know a falsehood when I see one - you are physically unable to see if or when users fall on their knees to the software.  And at my age, falling is nothing to joke about as a friend just discovered having broken both a hip and a shoulder.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 230
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 3:04 PM

MJ. Smith:

Fabian:
But again what do you fear?

As a mature Christian, I fear very little. But at the moment I do fear for my country given some of the "idjits" Zip it! running around opening their mouths.

P.S. You can essentially do what you want now by making each book(s) using a particular verse map a separate book and connecting them via a common series.

Totalitarism begins where you can't criticize. (In my opinon in this forum here too.)

I just simply want a feature. So I can import a whole Bible not portion for portion. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 5:08 PM

Fabian:
Thanks for your answer for what you are thankful. But again what do you fear?

My personal fear is not relevant for a friendly forum discussion about suggestion details & business motivation for Personal Book tool enhancement in Logos & Verbum Bible Software.

Saddened by my earlier question lacking a reasonable answer:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

What is the business incentive for Faithlife Corporation to implement more than one Bible milestone mapping within a Personal Book Bible ? Currently Faithlife does not receive any revenue from Personal Book(s) being created while implementing more than one Bible milestone mapping incurs costs for development and support. Faithlife has a business motive to be profitable: Profit = Revenue - Cost

Purpose of my question was seeking positive reason(s) for Faithlife Corporation to consider/implement suggestion for import of Personal Book Bible having a mixture of Bible milestones. (no personal attack was intended while seeking What motivation for development prioritization)

Ad-hominem responses actually weaken reason to consider tool suggestion for all users of Logos & Verbum (implies Faithlife Corporation should spend money on development costs & support for convenience of importing a Personal Book Bible having a mixture of Bible verse map milestones while not providing any Revenue to keep Faithlife Corporation operational). Corporate history includes doing a variety of helpful items for customers while not counting the costs, which subsequently resulted in employees being laid off. Highly recommend reading => Fire Someone Today: And Other Surprising Tactics for Making Your Business a Success (written by Faithlife Corporation CEO, Bob Pritchett)

Mistaking passion (for helping others use Faithlife software plus wanting Faithlife Corporation to stay in business) as worship misses the mark.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 230
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 2:48 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

What is the business incentive for Faithlife Corporation to implement more than one Bible milestone mapping within a Personal Book Bible ? Currently Faithlife does not receive any revenue from Personal Book(s) being created while implementing more than one Bible milestone mapping incurs costs for development and support. Faithlife has a business motive to be profitable: Profit = Revenue - Cost

So you fear Logos loose money, the same money you get to be the watchdog here. So you fear to loose your money. I know you have very useful post here in the forums. Some was really helpful to me. But not in this thread, so stop barking Zip it!

If my sentence above are not true, then stop acting like it would be true. Same as: I you don't want to be recognized as a fool, stop acting like a fool. Then I don't come to the conclusion ...

And please read the posts EXACTLY. I guess you have the skills for exegesis. I know my english is not the best as I am not a native english speaker. But I guess you are smart enough to understand what I write.

Bradley mentioned the problem of the verse mapping in a Bible book. For example the problem that exist with Rev. 17:17 until Rev. 18:1. With or without the verse Rev. 17:18. I understand the problem, so I changed my request to change not the Milestones for each chapter but for the Bible book. Then the chapter problem don't come up as every Bible book is a book itself. With my new request I avoid the problem Bradley mentioned. My new request don't give me, and other users, the same power as my first request, but it gives us more flexibility than the currently solution.

And a new request: It would be good if we can add Bible books, by simply add the Milestones for it.

Posts 2853
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 6:09 AM

Fabian:
  For example: The PBB uses KJV  

Prior to some recent date the Bible, or so I have been told, was just a string of letters.  

Then someone cut it up into chapters. [And we still debate where chapters should start and end (as where should Gen 1 end)  ]

Then someone had the great idea to create a concordance and cut the text into smaller cuts so we could find every word.  [[And his son has been quoted as saying that some of those 'cuts' were made when his father's horse hit a bump in the road]]

But not everyone agreed where the 'cuts' should be.  Maybe our Bible reading program needs to sync on 'words' rather than verse boundaries. 

And, as not everyone uses the same words, that will not work either.   Looks like we may be stuck with what we have. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 8:54 AM

David Ames:
But not everyone agreed where the 'cuts' should be. 

Logos Wiki => Bible Verse Maps documents lots of Bible Verse Maps (variety of 'cuts' in many places) implemented by Faithlife Development in various Bibles so each Bible has one verse map.

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2021 4:54 PM

THE UNIVERSAL BIBLE OF THE PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, ETHIOPIC, SYRIAC, AND SAMARITAN CHURCH

See thread:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/188514/1088916.aspx#1088916  

How do we enter that volume as a PBB of type Bible? 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2021 7:34 PM

David Ames:

THE UNIVERSAL BIBLE OF THE PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, ETHIOPIC, SYRIAC, AND SAMARITAN CHURCH

See thread:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/188514/1088916.aspx#1088916  

How do we enter that volume as a PBB of type Bible? 

Amazon reviews mention public domain material was combined together (with some editing): e.g. KJV 1900 with Apocrypha is included in Logos 9 Basic plus The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament in English is included in many library packages. Also available is Classic Studies on the New Testament Apocrypha (12 vols.)

If was considering creation of a PB Bible (competing with existing Faithlife resources, which already have better tagging that includes KJV 1900 reverse interlinear, which is not doable in PB Bible), then would 'cut' public domain verse numbering to match BibleKJV verse map as one PB Bible (handles most Universal Bible books plus should align well with public domain KJV text copied into the Universal Bible) with additional PB Bibles:

  1. bible verse map (Additional Psalm, 3 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees, Ode, Psalms of Solomon, Epistle to the Laodiceans)
  2. ? verse map for 'Additions to Daniel' (depends on public domain source 'cut')
  3. cap (OR otp) verse map (1 Enoch, 4 Ezra, 2 Baruch)
  4. ceb verse map (Psalm 151A, Psalm 151B)
  5. dssb verse map (Plea for Deliverance, Apostrophe to Zion, Hymn to the Creator, Apostrophe to Judah, David's Compositions, Eschatological Hymn, Catena)
  6. pesh verse map (Apocryphal Psalms, Epistle of Baruch, Apocalypse of Baruch & may change a book from bible to pesh verse map depending on 'cut' of public domain text)

Bible & BibleKJV verse mapping often is identical for a Bible Book while Bible verse map includes more books (so may consider 'cut' changes to KJV text humbering to match Bible verse map if wanted one PB Bible for most Universal Books instead of two).

Would use a custom series to connect PB Bibles for navigation. Some "Universal Bible" books may not have Bible Verse map so would try to mimic non-bible milestones in Logos resources, which could be an 'introduction' OR 'appendix' in PB Bible OR be a separate PB in the same series.

FWIW: Logos Wiki =>  Canonical Commentary Collections includes Logos navigation # for 87 Bible Books

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2853
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2021 5:02 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

David Ames:

THE UNIVERSAL BIBLE OF THE PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, ETHIOPIC, SYRIAC, AND SAMARITAN CHURCH

See thread:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/188514/1088916.aspx#1088916  

How do we enter that volume as a PBB of type Bible? 

If was considering creation of a PB Bible (competing with existing Faithlife resources, which already have better tagging that includes KJV 1900 reverse interlinear, which is not doable in PB Bible), then would 'cut' public domain verse numbering to match BibleKJV verse map as one PB Bible (handles most Universal Bible books plus should align well with public domain KJV text copied into the Universal Bible) with additional PB Bibles:

Would use a custom series to connect PB Bibles for navigation. Some "Universal Bible" books may not have Bible Verse map so would try to mimic non-bible milestones in Logos resources, which could be an 'introduction' OR 'appendix' in PB Bible OR be a separate PB in the same series.

As this thread asks how to versitize the text my answer would most likely be to do the book as multiple PBB books.  [Just for the record: I have no plans to do the task. Was just wondering how, with the current tools, that it could be done.] 

[As I stated somewhere else: I am working on inputting a Bible and as my only use of that Bible is to compare it to a 'reference Bible' I am 'force fitting' it to the verse structure of my 'reference Bible']

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