Are Restorationists, Evangelicals? Not a theological question just click-bait for Thomas B. Warren

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2020 7:54 PM

Thomas B. Warren Collection (28 vols.) has been on my prepub list for 59 months. Much of the time it has been close to going into production. So would everyone with any interest in Churches of Christ / Stone-Campbell movement / Restoration movement please put in a pre-pub purchase for this resource. His apologetics are a notch above the norm. And anyone writing a book titled Logic and the Bible can't be all bad. And best of all, if we get it into production, perhaps we can get them to correct the Christian Group on the store front product page. Wink

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 28 2020 8:37 PM

Well now, anyone born in Carrizo Springs (nearby springs a source for holy water per Wikipedia) ... and later ACC, .... and then Freed-Hardeman .... deserves a COC vote (maybe not cOC). And what a question:

"God and Evil: Does Judeo-Christian Theism Involve a Logical Contradiction?"

Edit: You said no theology. But all those titles, my Dad labored mightily against from his earliest days. He was an 'Anti' and darn proud of it. I feel a traitor ordering!

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 28 2020 9:28 PM

I’ve been in it for a good while.  Since it’s almost funded, maybe FL can include it in an L9 BP like Bronze or Silver and above.  His Warren-Flew debate is excellent.  I have the VHS and the arguments presented were so good Mr. Flew looked like he was in for a rude awakening from the first night until the end.  
Thank you for giving this one a little push 👍😁👌

DAL

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Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 5:15 AM

It may be better if Logos would consider breaking this up into two separate pre pubs so the price would be more attractive.  If one purchases one of the pre pubs and likes what he/she is reading, they would be more willing to purchase the second half of the  series. 

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 6:04 AM

Looks interesting though I agree that the price is a tad high but I'll put in a prepub for it.  

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 6:10 AM

Everyone preorder and if you don’t like it return it.  Me, I’m sure I’ll keep them.  I have a few of them in print but not all. There used to be a CD ROM floating around that was sold but Hester Publications, but I guess it got discontinued.  I wish I’d gotten a hold of one, but now, I’m just hopeful someday it’ll be available in Logos.

DAL

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Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 1:28 PM

I'm in! In not DOC, COC or cofC, but I am Restoration Movement...looks to me like some very good reading/pondering. Thank you for this heads-up!

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 1:41 PM

Of course, now you have me wondering about the question 😉 (I haven’t heard of Restorationists before and have no idea how they might actually differ)

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 3:04 PM

David Wanat:
I haven’t heard of Restorationists before and have no idea how they might actually differ

See Ben's tag-line: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/190601.aspx  (plus the thread's double-bump didn't seem to take).

Restorationists are kind of like the theology was badly damaged, and our job is to guess (oops .... restore) what it used to look like. Smiling.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 3:14 PM

Bill Shewmaker:

I'm in! In not DOC, COC or cofC, but I am Restoration Movement...looks to me like some very good reading/pondering. Thank you for this heads-up!

Bill...what's left? Moberly-ite? Big Smile

Stick out tongue

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 3:23 PM

David Wanat:
have no idea how they might actually differ)

A hint: How many times is Hume mentioned in The Philosophy of Religion of Alexander Campbell by J. Caleb Clanton?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 3:33 PM

Denise:

David Wanat:
I haven’t heard of Restorationists before and have no idea how they might actually differ

See Ben's tag-line: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/190601.aspx  (plus the thread's double-bump didn't seem to take).

Restorationists are kind of like the theology was badly damaged, and our job is to guess (oops .... restore) what it used to look like. Smiling.

my short hand is a mostly frontier "movement" begun in the early 1800s that sought to unite the denominations by shunning the dividing creeds and traditions and "go back and do things the way the early church did it." Slogans like "no creed but Christ" "do Bible things in Bible ways" etc.  Divining a consistent hermeneutic of just what that meant, how to contextualize it, etc etc proved to be divisive. Three main streams came out: Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Independent Christian churches/churches of Christ, and the Churches of Christ (acapella...which means a key distinctive was not using instruments in worship at all). Alexander and Thomas Campbell and Barton Stone were early leaders. Some authors/scholars in Logos from that broader tradition are Everett Ferguson, Jack Cottrell, Robert Lowery, and more (see the College Press Commentary set.  Also, some books/resources in Logos include: The Stone Campbell Movement: The Story of the American Restoration Movement, The Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement, Christian History Magazine-Issue 106: The Church to End all Churches?: The Unifying Vision of the Stone-Campbell movement.

In common parlance, there is a whole range from conservative to liberal. Some will vehemently deny being Evangelical, others will see themselves as part of a rebirth of "the true church" after centuries of Apostasy, others will embrace the World Council of Churches.  Quite a mix.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 4:06 PM

Friedrich:
Churches of Christ (acapella...which means a key distinctive was not using instruments in worship at all).

A minor sliver correction - Standard Publishing Company (in Logos) is a instrumental branch of the Churches of Christ. But certainly a small, mostly Northern thread.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 4:32 PM

MJ. Smith:
instrumental branch of the Churches of Christ. But certain a small, mostly Northern thread.

Our 'shopping town' had one of those. When my aunt and her friend visited, she brought their own grape juice and crackers. A bridge too far.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 6:32 PM

MJ. Smith:

Friedrich:
Churches of Christ (acapella...which means a key distinctive was not using instruments in worship at all).

A minor sliver correction - Standard Publishing Company (in Logos) is a instrumental branch of the Churches of Christ. But certainly a small, mostly Northern thread.

Correcting what?? Geeked

Friedrich:
Three main streams came out:

1. Christian Church (Disciples of Christ),

2. Independent Christian churches/churches of Christ,

3. and the Churches of Christ

btw, I grew up in the Cc/coC...both names.  Dad was a missionary in Germany and we worked extensively with CoC (acapella) and my first ministry was in a joint Disciples/Independent church.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 6:40 PM

MJ. Smith:

Standard Publishing Company (in Logos) is a instrumental branch of the Churches of Christ. But certainly a small, mostly Northern thread.

technically, they would not be a branch of the C of C. They share the same name and heritage. And, yes, the instrumental ones tend to be in the North and the acapella in the south, but...not really.  Many C of C in the north that are acapella. and, to my knowledge, they will NEVER used the designation "Christian church" in their name.  However, the "instrumental" brand uses both designations.  Whereas the Disciples are (I think) exclusively known as Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).  Standard Pub, originally Cincinnati based, I believe, was connected with the "independents." (who have no denominational structure, unlike the Disciples.)

Tedious, I know.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2020 7:03 PM

You are probably right. I was basing it on the 4 churches I knew of the 7 founded by my great-uncle in south-central Washington with one across the river in Oregon. of the 4 I knew, 3 were on speaking terms, 2 used instruments, 1 didn't, and 1 actually had a female pastor ...  two of my siblings went to Harding College in the 1950's which I took as some sort of an indication of affinity. My Grandfather went to a Bible college that split on the Disciples side after he attended. He (and my Dad) were very clear that they weren't on the Disciples side.

But rather than closing, this beauty, built (partially) by my Irish Catholic great-grandfather, founded by my Mennonite-heritage great granduncle, pastored for years by my grandfather, is now a "community" church and a state heritage site.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2020 9:58 AM

Friedrich:

Bill...what's left? Moberly-ite? Big Smile

Stick out tongue

 Well, Dan, as you well know...:) Your father was educated, as was I, by Reese, who was taught by Dale, who was taught by Foster, who was taught by McGarvey, who was taught by A. Campbell....:)

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2020 3:51 PM

Bill Shewmaker:

Friedrich:

Bill...what's left? Moberly-ite? Big Smile

Stick out tongue

 Well, Dan, as you well know...:) Your father was educated, as was I, by Reese, who was taught by Dale, who was taught by Foster, who was taught by McGarvey, who was taught by A. Campbell....:)

And Campbell goes straight back to the Apostle Paul himself! :D

I DO love that lineage you share!  Reese had a nice, clear, writing style, if i remember correctly.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2020 3:55 PM

MJ. Smith:

You are probably right. I was basing it on the 4 churches I knew of the 7 founded by my great-uncle in south-central Washington with one across the river in Oregon. of the 4 I knew, 3 were on speaking terms, 2 used instruments, 1 didn't, and 1 actually had a female pastor ...  two of my siblings went to Harding College in the 1950's which I took as some sort of an indication of affinity. My Grandfather went to a Bible college that split on the Disciples side after he attended. He (and my Dad) were very clear that they weren't on the Disciples side.

But rather than closing, this beauty, built (partially) by my Irish Catholic great-grandfather, founded by my Mennonite-heritage great granduncle, pastored for years by my grandfather, is now a "community" church and a state heritage site.

That's a pretty awesome heritage, and what a neat building!  I recently got into my heritage, and on my maternal grandmother's side they were early (1840s or so?) supporters of the "Campbellite" tradition. Grandpa was ENR.  Dad's were Belgian Catholic, but not regular attenders until dad started going to mom's church. 

Thanks for sharing your history and pics!  My first ministry was at a small country church, established in 1838, that laid claim to the fact that A. Campbell preached there a time or two.  And, much later, the illustrious D. F. De Vilder did, as well! Big Smile

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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