Bible Word Study - Septuagint Help

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Posts 55
oldpaths | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 21 2020 7:48 AM

Is there a way to have the verses show up in English for when using the Septuagint in a Bible Word Study?  I get why they are in Greek but would like to see a list of those verses in English.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 21 2020 9:14 AM

Well, I'm still on L7, but when doing LXX BWS's, I have 2 sections with the 'circles' ... one called 'Translation' (english; NABRE), and the other Septuagint Translation (greek; Logos LXX). Ergo english verses or greek verses.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 21 2020 10:48 AM

Ryland Brown:

Is there a way to have the verses show up in English for when using the Septuagint in a Bible Word Study?  I get why they are in Greek but would like to see a list of those verses in English.

The keys are to have a Reverse Interlinear Septuagint like LXX Swete (be careful you can identify the needed resource by its having the Aleph and Omega icon displayed) and an English Septuagint like the LES. Then you would follow the procedure to identify the headwords you're interested in. In this instance I used arche. See below

 

Now you're in business.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 55
oldpaths | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 21 2020 1:00 PM

That's perfect.  Thanks!

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 21 2020 4:47 PM

Ryland Brown:

That's perfect.  Thanks!

Thank you for the feedback. All too often do we help folks and they don't bother to post back that we solved their issue or not; so again thank you!

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 17
Naveen Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 23 2020 8:10 PM

I've asked the same question to Logos and they were not very helpful at all. This is very helpful. Thank you. Just a follow up. I can see the English verses in LES. But is it possible to see the verses in, say, ESV?

I don't mind doing it in 2 steps. If Logos can output the verses in such a manner that I can cut-paste into "Copy Bible Verses" tool, then I can get the ESV translation of these verses. Is this possible?

Thanks 

Naveen

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 23 2020 10:42 PM

Naveen Daniel:
I can see the English verses in LES. But is it possible to see the verses in, say, ESV?

Not from the Translation ring as the ESV doesn't have Greek words in the Old Testament

But if you scroll down to the Textual Searches section and choose the LXX, you can add the ESV as an additional version into the resulting search panel

Posts 17
Naveen Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 26 2020 2:04 PM

Hi Graham,

Sorry for the late reply. As far as I can recall, I didn't receive any email notification that some one replied to my post. I was surprised to see your reply when I went to the Forum directly.

Graham. You are God sent. Your response was super helpful. It did what I wanted, spot on.

If I may ask a follow up question. How do I limit the output of the Septuagint to the books of the Old Testament? I looked at the list of Resources to see if I can isolate it, but I couldn't. Thank you in advance if you could offer any pointers.

Naveen 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 26 2020 2:47 PM

Hi Naveen

Naveen Daniel:
Sorry for the late reply. As far as I can recall, I didn't receive any email notification that some one replied to my post.

If you wish to receive email notifications you need to explicitly request it

Naveen Daniel:

Your response was super helpful. It did what I wanted, spot on.

That is good to hear

Naveen Daniel:
If I may ask a follow up question. How do I limit the output of the Septuagint to the books of the Old Testament?

Do you mean just the books in the Protestant canon?

If so, I can't think of any easy way of doing that. You can't just search in Get-Mal as some of the other books are interspersed among them

Posts 17
Naveen Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 26 2020 3:53 PM

Thanks Graham.

1) I will be sure to check "Email me replies to this post" going forward.

2) Yes, I wanted to limit the Septuagint to the Protestant Canon. But that is ok if it is not possible. I can try and take the output to a Word file and then manually drop the non-Protestant references.

Thank you very much. Much appreciated.

Naveen

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 26 2020 4:39 PM

Naveen Daniel:
How do I limit the output of the Septuagint to the books of the Old Testament?

Let me use this as a teachable moment, setting aside Western Christianity where it might devolve into a theological argument.

  • Think of Christianity historically as having three major threads - Western Christianity which used Latin, Bzyantine Christianity (Eastern Orthodox) which used Greek, and Syriac Christianity (Oriental Orthodox) which used Syriac.
  • In modern times, Western Christianity split into two major threads - Catholic and Protestant; this thread I'm setting aside.
  • Byzantine and Syriac Christianity have always used the LXX as their Old Testament and have always considered it as canonical. The portion that I set aside, Western Christianity, has a significant portion that also uses the LXX as their Old Testament and have always considered in canonical.
  • Therefore, it is reasonable that when looking at LXX data, the software assume that the user considers the LXX as the canonical standard OR if they do not, they know how to apply their definition of the canon to the text.
  • Note that among all the groups mentioned above as using the LXX as their canonical standard, there has never been agreement or precise definition of what is actually in the LXX canon ... general agreement with regional variations is the norm.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 26 2020 5:15 PM

MJ. Smith:
Therefore, it is reasonable that when looking at LXX data, the software assume that the user considers the LXX as the canonical standard

Oh, Barnabas, Barnabas! Where art thou, Barnabas? Smiling.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 17
Naveen Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 27 2020 9:05 AM

Thanks MJ for the history lesson. Very helpful. Much appreciated.

Naveen

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 28 2020 4:44 PM

Naveen Daniel:
I wanted to limit the Septuagint to the Protestant Canon. But that is ok if it is not possible. I can try and take the output to a Word file and then manually drop the non-Protestant references.

You would need to know the divisions that occur within books like Esdras B  e.g. Ch 1-10 = Ezra, Ch 11-23 = Neh, Also, variations within Psalms and other 'Protestant' books. However, you can let Logos handle that if you modify the query by adding  WITHIN {Milestone <Bible Gen-Mal>} (in a Search of All Passages in a Septuagint resource) e.g. <Lemma = lbs/el/θεός> WITHIN {Milestone <Bible Gen-Mal>}

Dave
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 28 2020 11:00 PM

Dave Hooton:
However, you can let Logos handle that if you modify the query by adding  WITHIN {Milestone <Bible Gen-Mal>} (in a Search of All Passages in a Septuagint resource) e.g. <Lemma = lbs/el/θεός> WITHIN {Milestone <Bible Gen-Mal>}

Thanks Dave - I didn't think of that!

Posts 17
Naveen Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 29 2020 6:32 PM

Thanks Dave for your response. 

Please see above a cut-paste (first time doing this here) of my query. I think I have it the way you suggested. But I still find that no filter was applied. If you have the time to point out my mistake, that would be great.

Thank you,

Naveen

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 29 2020 7:42 PM

I'd almost posted earlier to note that Dave and Graham were making assumptions as to the sequence and canon of your highest priority Bible. Unfortunately, I don't see your query for verification of what the problem is.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 29 2020 11:42 PM

Naveen Daniel:
Please see above a cut-paste (first time doing this here) of my query. I think I have it the way you suggested. But I still find that no filter was applied. If you have the time to point out my mistake, that would be great.

Please try again using the paperclip icon in the forum editor

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 30 2020 11:34 AM

Naveen Daniel:
I think I have it the way you suggested. But I still find that no filter was applied.

Result shows alignment to ESV e.g.  LXX Dan 3:92 = ESV Dan 3:25

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 17
Naveen Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 31 2020 10:33 PM

Thanks MJ for your response and Thanks Dave Hooton for trying to figure out my mess. Thanks Graham for pointing out how to include attachments. All of your help is much appreciated.

I hope I have done this cut-paste right this time. As you can see from below, I still see the output from outside the Protestant canon. There were 137 results in 133 verses before I added "WITHIN {Milestone <Bible Gen-Mal>}" The number of results didn't change after I included this extra filter within quotes. So I must be doing something wrong.

When I scrolled through the results, I did notice that some verses didn't have the ESV version (this was even before the filer given in quotes above). Does that mean that these verses don't belong to Gen-Mal?

If so, how do I find the Protestant Canon equivalent version of some of the verses in the Septuagint such as 1 Kgdms, 2 Kgdms etc that also have a ESV version attached to it? Is there a way to map it automatically before outputting the results. Maybe, I am getting ahead of myself here.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all very much.

Naveen

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