Group License thingy

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Posts 2046
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 25 2020 9:01 PM

Two separate topics here:

  1. Are you talking about before or after we made this change? It sounded like you were talking about before we made this change. If not, I misunderstood, and I'm sorry for the confusion.
  2. Collection product pages don't benefit from the "Open in Logos" button, since there's not a single resource to open. That's a good example of where the ownership message is still needed. We'll get this corrected ASAP.
Posts 145
Wayne Clarke | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 1:56 AM

Hi Phil.

Maybe 60% of the time I know in advance of landing on the product page, whether I own the resource or not.  As you mentioned, I do often arrive on the product page as a result of a query I run on any of your store fronts.  However, there are numerous other avenues that bring me to  the product pages for Logos, Verbum, and Ebooks sites.

For instance, I received an email yesterday from you folks informing me that the Catholic Commentary on Scripture (CCSS) was 50% off.  I was relatively certain I owned it, but with close to 30,000 resources I don't always remember everything I own.  So, I clicked on the link and was brought to the product page.  Initially, I thought 'Oh, I guess I don't own it', as the "Add to cart" button was showing.  I scrolled down the page, but quickly realized by scanning the "Resources Included" section, that I do in fact own it!  Links from your email marketing campaigns often bring me to the product pages directly.  This would translate into 2-3 dozen clicks directly to the product pages every month.

Many times I land on the product pages from links in the forums!  Others will highlight great resources, items on sale, et cetera, and so I click the link and am directed to the product page.  This happens a lot!  (And I am super appreciative for my fellow Faithlife users for highlighting interesting resources and prices for the rest of our community to take advantage of!)

The email lists from Jan Krohn are another way that I frequently arrive directly on both the Logos and Ebooks product pages.  (Thank you Jan, as you have helped me spend more than I ever wanted to, but at least it is always at a discount!!)

Because I do not find the "Wish Lists" to be super helpful / functional, I keep my own running lists in MS-Excel.  I will periodically click the links I have included within the Excel file to arrive at a product page.  I also have the price, title, and comments.  I do have many items in the Ebooks and Logos "Wish Lists", but that is not normally where I keep track of 'desired' resources.  For instance, there is no way to include comments in the current "Wish Lists".  Also, there is no way to include a Pre-Pub resource, that I wish to track for a potential future purchase.  This is not an everyday occurrence, but it is definitely another means of me arriving on the product pages directly.

Internet searches, links from other websites (e.g. reviews), and such are another way of landing on the product pages, as you have correctly surmised.

(I do the internet search 'thing' because often times the Logos website search fails to report all of the resources I expect (hope) to see.  I know I am not alone with this concern--see the forums--and things have definitely improved.  However, there are many times author names, titles, publisher are wrong/don't match and Google finds it for me when I do an advanced search limiting my query to the Logos site.)

Regarding your query about accurate ownership status for FBOM pages, it depends on the site.  For Logos.com they normally report proper ownership.  The Logos sales pages are normally correct as well, but not always.  These Logos.com related pages are definitely more accurate than they were in the past.  However, the same cannot be said for the Verbum and Faithlife Ebooks FBOM and sales pages!  They frequently report a "lack" of ownership, but clicking on the resource link or adding it/them to my cart, I quickly find out that I do in fact own the resource(s), more often than not.

I hope this is of some benefit.

And thank you for the information and detailed answers you provided in responding to my previous post.

Posts 144
Thomas Pape | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 4:00 AM

how about taking another color for the shopping cart button?

Posts 1505
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 5:06 AM

Vincent Chia:

Also another here ... You get the point :)

Again, I can't tell from the "button" whether I own this or not. I can scroll down and see the individual items to see if the "owned" is there - which is really time consuming.

I also have that happen with some resources, but I think it's most often those being offered for free or at some special monthly discount.

Posts 201
Stephen Terlizzi | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 9:05 AM

Another point. The website asked me for my church and its location and automatically created a church group. It made me the administrator of that group.

I neither wanted the group nor want to be the admin of that group. However, I cannot remove myself as the admin or delete the group.

I would like this removed from my account.

In Christ,

Steve

Posts 1006
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 10:06 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Are there places on Logos.com that take you to product pages where you don't get an ownership indicator in advance?

Phil, this issue has been going on BTC (before the change) and it's very irritating. I go to a bundled resource that has dynamic pricing and it gives me the pricing structure, but no indication of which products are owned or not. It takes a long time to individually go through all the resources of a large bundle.

One example of many: https://www.logos.com/product/174947/eerdmans-biblical-studies-upgrade-2

Posts 1006
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 10:25 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Can you help me understand what you don't like?

You are aware of all these, just wanted to summarize.

1. We weren't notified in advance, so we were taken by surprise.

2. It came at a time many of us were going through a lot of resources because of the Labor Day sale confusion and didn't understand the change.

3. The circle i message led me to believe I had somehow requested to join Group Pricing.

4. The behavior was inconsistant across different platforms.

5. Logos was slow in responding to our confusion, partly because of time zone issues.

6. Most humans don't like most changes.

Posts 1006
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 11:23 AM

Dale E Heath:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Are there places on Logos.com that take you to product pages where you don't get an ownership indicator in advance?

Phil, this issue has been going on BTC (before the change) and it's very irritating. I go to a bundled resource that has dynamic pricing and it gives me the pricing structure, but no indication of which products are owned or not. It takes a long time to individually go through all the resources of a large bundle.

One example of many: https://www.logos.com/product/174947/eerdmans-biblical-studies-upgrade-2

Phil, here are 2 bundles that I own. In the first one in the Resources included section, it gives the individual prices. In the second one, it just says owned. Why the difference? When I hover over the resources in the second one, they will appear. It's almost as though Logos is having more than one person writing code.Wink

https://www.logos.com/product/55968/loeb-classical-library-builder

https://www.logos.com/product/168421/mentor-expository-commentaries

Posts 2092
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 11:49 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Collection product pages don't benefit from the "Open in Logos" button, since there's not a single resource to open. That's a good example of where the ownership message is still needed. We'll get this corrected ASAP.

Here is another example:

https://www.logos.com/product/42500/myrtlefield-expositions

I own this collection, but the button is not greyed out, nor does it say I own it unless I look at resources included and discover that I own them all.  I would prefer the buy button be greyed out, but the qty button not be greyed out.  Thus if I want to purchase group license, I guess I could by changing qty from 1 to 2 or more

On resources I do not own, I see an option for "add to wish list".  On resources I do own, perhaps that option is not available?  If so, perhaps you can add "already own" or something like that.

Posts 4193
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 12:26 PM

I agree that this is confusing.  I don't know the programming issues involved but it would be nice if it showed a box for self purchase and one for other licenses or maybe something that shows how many current licenses you have. 

Posts 617
Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 2:10 PM

Armin:

Gets very annoying.

YesSad

Posts 4440
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 2:13 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Vincent Chia:
Sometimes I have to put the item into the cart in order to know if I own it!

Prior to this change? I'd love to understand the situations where you could even do this. It shouldn't be possible to add something to your cart that you already own.

It's regularly and entirely possible... every time a Sale page on Logos.com or Verbum.com has been created without being formatted to grey out stuff I already have... which has been common for some years.

“God watches over the affairs of those who truly love him without their worrying about them.” - St. John of the Cross

Posts 26029
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 4:15 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Don't you generally know if you own a product before you arrive at the product page? If you get there from Logos.com search results, the ownership message is unchanged and clear, isn't it? That's true of most landing pages across Logos.com, too, right

That appears to be true from the Logos Monthly Sale page. But a product page link from the forums (for example) will present an opportunity to purchase a single copy without explanation. The Open in Logos button is ambiguous as I'm likely to think that I am getting a Preview! So it needs to be clear that the invitation is for a group license, when the next page asks one to Find your church or ministry.

That page needs to refine the groups that are listed as it includes several Faithlife Test/Beta groups for which I am unlikely to purchase a license! And why does it include two Faithlife groups with an invitation to join!? There is no button to create a Group, unlike the (unresponsive) Don't see your Church or Ministry button.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 2046
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 4:31 PM

Thanks, all. We have an update coming, hopefully by the end of the week, that will improve the situation and prioritize ownership indication over group licensing visibility (and the possibility of purchasing a single group license).

  1. If you own a product, it'll appear as owned without an add to cart button. The only difference between this and what we used to do is that there will now be a quantity selector. If you change the quantity to 2 or more, an add to cart button will appear.
  2. We'll also add an ownership statement to the quantity 2 or more view to reinforce your ownership if you do change the quantity.

We have some other ideas, but this should address the core problem by restoring the immediate ownership communication that was there before but got lost in the recent change.

Posts 4440
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 26 2020 5:48 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We have some other ideas, but this should address the core problem by restoring the immediate ownership communication that was there before but got lost in the recent change.

YesYes

“God watches over the affairs of those who truly love him without their worrying about them.” - St. John of the Cross

Posts 1006
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 28 2020 7:24 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Thanks, all. We have an update coming, hopefully by the end of the week, that will improve the situation and prioritize ownership indication over group licensing visibility (and the possibility of purchasing a single group license).

  1. If you own a product, it'll appear as owned without an add to cart button. The only difference between this and what we used to do is that there will now be a quantity selector. If you change the quantity to 2 or more, an add to cart button will appear.
  2. We'll also add an ownership statement to the quantity 2 or more view to reinforce your ownership if you do change the quantity.

We have some other ideas, but this should address the core problem by restoring the immediate ownership communication that was there before but got lost in the recent change.

This is one that's wrong. Owned, but not showing "Open in Logos" It does have the circle i.

https://www.logos.com/product/10059/the-numerical-bible-vol-3-psalms

Posts 279
LogosEmployee
Celeste Fiorillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 28 2020 2:06 PM

We have updated the site behavior and you should now be seeing the familiar "Owned" box when a product is owned. You can purchase group licenses by changing the quantity to 2 or higher. 

The "Open in Logos" button will also display when applicable.

Thank you for your feedback and patience.

Posts 26029
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 28 2020 4:00 PM

Celeste Fiorillo:
you should now be seeing the familiar "Owned" box when a product is owned. You can purchase group licenses by changing the quantity to 2 or higher. 

Does that mean I'm purchasing 2 group licenses when I already own it (3 licenses in total)? How do I specify 1 extra (group) license?

If I don't own it, I presume that 2 means I'm purchasing 2 licenses, and I have to assign one to myself from a Group?

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 2046
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 28 2020 4:13 PM

Dave Hooton:
Does that mean I'm purchasing 2 group licenses when I already own it (3 licenses in total)?

Yes.

Dave Hooton:
How do I specify 1 extra (group) license?

That's no longer supported with this design. We had to choose between (1) allowing the purchase of 1 group license if you already owned it or (2) prioritizing ownership communication. The started with #1 and have now pivoted to #2. We may be able to support both in the future.

Dave Hooton:
If I don't own it, I presume that 2 means I'm purchasing 2 licenses, and I have to assign one to myself from a Group?

If you want one, yes. You could assign both to others. For example, you might own Bronze and buy two copies of Fundamentals and assign those to others in a group.

Posts 26029
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 28 2020 4:40 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Dave Hooton:
If I don't own it, I presume that 2 means I'm purchasing 2 licenses, and I have to assign one to myself from a Group?

If you want one, yes. You could assign both to others.

If I assign both to others, what will I see on the Product page and a search list of products i.e. do I "own" it?

In general, do I get a summary of Group licenses, including my ownership?

How do the transactions appear in my Order History?

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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