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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 12:34 AM

xnman:

I think WS users should get Sermon Builder at least. 

Just my opinion...

Interesting use of 'should'.

I bought biscuits from 'Morrisions'. Tescos have a 'buy one get one free' offer on biscuits, therefore Tesco should give me a free packet of biscuits.

I think Tescos would argue that I should have bought my biscuits from them in the first place.

Just my opinion...

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 2:50 AM

Mike Binks:

I bought biscuits from 'Morrisions'. Tescos have a 'buy one get one free' offer on biscuits, therefore Tesco should give me a free packet of biscuits.

I think Tescos would argue that I should have bought my biscuits from them in the first place.

Just my opinion...

Well said.

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 4:48 AM

xnman:

I think WS users should get Sermon Builder at least. 

Looking at Wordsearch page => https://www.logos.com/wordsearch noticed:

 

See How Logos Compares to Wordsearch

All Wordsearch customers have received a comparable version of Logos at no charge. But how does it compare to Wordsearch? Check out this chart to learn more.


Compare Logos & Wordsearch

Comparison chart shows Wordsearch 12 owners received "Enhanced Sermon Building"

Logos 9 (& Verbum 9) New Features => https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018922551 include Sermon Manager & Sermon Builder. Announcement of Wordsearch migration to Logos happened on 21 Sep 2020 => https://blog.faithlife.com/blog/2020/09/wordsearch-bible-is-transitioning-to-logos/ that was followed later by Logos 9 announcement on 26 Oct 2020 => https://blog.faithlife.com/blog/2020/10/logos-9-is-here-see-whats-new/ (so existing Logos & Verbum users needed to purchase Silver feature upgrade OR Academic feature upgrade OR above to unlock the new Sermon Manager & Sermon Builder for their use)

Noticed the red X's in comparison chart are Wordsearch capabilities that Faithlife Apps do not have an equivalent. Thankful for Faithlife starting thread => Favorite Wordsearch Features

New Feedback site shows:

Sermon/Illustration Organizer => Add Function to Notes for organizing illustrations, etc. has 7 votes (no status)

Instant Verse Study currently has two feedback items with 1 vote each => Instant Verse Study & => Instant Verse Study

OneDrive integration has a Proclaim feedback item with 1 vote => Import from Cloud Drive

LessonMaker => Adult Questions for LESSONMaker has status of Planned with 4 votes (more votes may help plan happen sooner)

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 6:23 AM

Maybe you guys don't understand... The reason I think WS users should get Sermon Builders is because they had such capability in WS...  I don't care what other companies do (i.e. Tesco, etc).... that's not the point....  but if WS users had that capability in WS then they should get it in Logos....  and they did have the capability in WS... 

And to give WS users a lesser package (one that does not have capability to build sermons ) means Logos is taking away capabilities that WS users had.... 

But people that don't know WS don't know the difference. They seem to think that WS users is encroaching or "getting something they should not have"  ... Such is not the case.  It was not WS users fault that this merger happened and I am sure that LifeWay and Faithlife wanted it to be fair for the WS user... But the L9 Base and Starter packages that most of WS users was put in does not have the capability for WS user to create sermons in Logos. They had this capability in WS.... 

I'm not angry, not upset. After spending time going through the "learning curve" (and still going through it) of Logos...  I like it. It's a great program.

But I do think... WS users did loose capability of being able to have their sermons in Logos.. as the did have them in WS....  I was one of them. 

Now.... I am a man... I do make mistakes... and I fully understand that I may have missed something.... so.... lay it on me! I can take it.   I think....  Indifferent

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 6:47 AM

xnman:
And to give WS users a lesser package (one that does not have capability to build sermons ) means Logos is taking away capabilities that WS users had....

As per Mr Bink's 'should', I think the question is what FL committed to? A full one-for-one (maybe in their purchase agreement?) or just an approximate match (some missing WS, but some added FL).

I agree, if a one-for-one, your point is well taken. They've been careful describing what their actual duties were. I suspect it was approximate equivalence (selected features plus books).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 7:06 AM

Denise ---

I understand... but think about this....  many WS users were preachers, pastors, etc.  And now to take away their capability to put their sermons and such in the program (WS) they paid very good money for   and then because of the merger.... those preachers and pastors, etc. now have to pay more good money for something they already had....  well, that just don't make sense to me.... no matter how you cut that cake. 

After reading what I wrote... I realize my words may sound terse... believe me, such is not meant. I am not upset or mean or angry or any of those things. Just saying... 

 

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 8
Robert Paul McCloud | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 7:13 AM

Unfortunately, Mr. Binks' example is a poor scenario in comparison to what has occurred. His scenario depicts a one time purchase that is gone once it is consumed. That's not the case between Wordsearch and their customers: theirs was a continual association, So than, Mr. Binks' example just doesn't fit. I also get the impression that Mr. Binks thinks Wordsearch owners are moving from a very inferior product to a much higher grade product, and we should just be happy with what we have (Wordsearch was NOT inferior, just a different approach). That would be fine, IF THIS WAS A SECULAR TRANSACTION BETWEEN COMPANIES AND NOT A CHIRST CENTERED ONES. Secular reasoning should not enter into this.

There are unanswered questions that pertain to what is meant by "equivalent" (as Denise has pointed out). Did Wordsearch's parent company look for a buyer? Or did Logos approach them with an offer to buy Wordsearch? What kind of agreement's were made in the back rooms? Those agreements would depend on who initiated the sale. The appropriate, Biblical response to this buyout is to ensure that those loyal customers who owned Wordsearch have as close to their Wordsearch package as possible within Biblical reason (not secular reason. 1 Corinthians 6 might apply here). Neither company should carry the transition with any attitude of "short changing" the loyal customers of the Wordsearch packages, because to do so would not be Christ like. I myself feel that FL has attempted to do so, but then, I didn't own one of the more powerful packages of Wordsearch. 

Posts 1776
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 7:31 AM

Five years ago I bought a lifetime membership in a brewery's mug club, A bit over a year the brewery closed down. If I were to take advantage of another brewery's special sale offer to members of the old brewery's mug club, would I have the right to complain that their mug club doesn't have some of the features of where I had been a member?

I don't think so. And you can continue to use Wordsearch as long as you want to - or until Microsoft breaks it. So what is the problem?

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 7:32 AM

xnman:
I don't care what other companies do (i.e. Tesco, etc).... that's not the point....  but if WS users had that capability in WS then they should get it in Logos....  and they did have the capability in WS... 

Ok let's ditch the analogy!

As I am a mean spirited individual who was bidding for the failing Wordsearch company had I been successful I would have frozen development of the Wordsearch program and, over a period run down the book store. I would have raided the Wordsearch licences and converted the gems to my software and ditched the rest. I might have given those who wanted to move over to my platform an introductory offer or two as an inducement.

This would have been fair, Wordsearch users have the program they paid for and the resources they paid for. It is not my concern if they want to wreck the (now frozen) program by updating their OS, breaking their computer or wearing it out.

Mr Prichett is a much nicer man and I think that he has been much kinder than I.

Of course my mate Andy Capp has been a loyal customer of Mr Prichett's for some years. He had noted that in order for the company to prosper they need to sell resources. So he had been buying on a regular basis some things that he has only a passing interest in because his main aim has been to support the development of the platform and ensure the viability of the company. He wonders if the acquisition of another company has been of any advantage to him as a customer. He sees a lot of demanding folk soaking up the development time and money.

Andy is asking where the customers would have gone if Wordsearch had just been allowed to fail or even fallen into my cruel clutches.

As I said I am interested in the use of the word 'should' and how it applies in this context.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 9009
LogosEmployee

xnman:

I think WS users should get Sermon Builder at least. 

As shown in the comparison chart other users have posted, WS12 owners did get the Logos 8 Sermon Builder feature for free.

Were you not aware we had given that feature away, or are you asking about/for something different?

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 8:13 AM

Mr Ken McGuire....

Simple that WS is doomed to go away....changes and updates to Microsoft will see to that.

Mr. Mike Binks....

I didn't see you as being mean spirited... but I did see you speak as a true businessman. And I am glad you didn't get to purchase WS.... for that reason.

But... Logos appears to me to be a great company... and one that works with people.. and from what I can tell... seems to have a reputation for doing that. And I am thankful for Logos being like that.

My use of the word "should" goes along these lines...  L9 Base and Starter packages does not have the Sermon Builder in them.  But such capability was in WS... I used it regularly with sermons and such. Logos did not give the preachers and pastors, etc. this capability. I was pointing this out. I think this was an honest mistake or something that was overseen....imho. But this fact somewhat "hinders" preachers and pastor, etc. in Logos as they do not have the capability that they did have. 

Now.... Yes they can still use WS... until someone like you buys it or Microsoft changes the OS.... and in any case that is inevitable to happen. Then where will the WS preachers and pastors, etc be?   Simply out in the cold unless they pay more money for something they already had...   

And by the way, most preachers and pastors, etc. don't make a lot of money, some do, but those are in the .005 percent of most preachers etc. So here is a man of God that paid good money for a program to help him with his work of preaching God's Word, now has to pay double... just because someone decided to arbitrally  put him in a package that cut down on his capability of using the program.

So, my reasoning... of Logos "should" have given Sermon Builder to WS users is valid.... 

IMHO. 

xn = Christan  man=man

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 9:14 AM

xnman:
just because someone decided to arbitrally  put him in a package that cut down on his capability of using the program.

just because somebody decided to arbitrarily to put him in a (free) package that  gave him nearly all of the capability of using the program that he paid another company for.

As my friend above pointed out. You joined the wrong Mug Club.

However, as a different, even nicer man, has pointed out those on whatever Wordsearch 12 was should have the Sermon Builder so you were right all along.

It seems that Wordsearch 12 users should have the Sermon Builder and Mr Pritchett is even nicer than I thought.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1776
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 9:56 AM

xnman:
Simple that WS is doomed to go away....changes and updates to Microsoft will see to that.

Why is that Faithlife's problem?

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 10:09 AM

Ken McGuire....

I never even implied that it was Logos problem....  that would be an entirely different topic, which I would not try to give credit too.

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 10:16 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

xnman:

I think WS users should get Sermon Builder at least. 

As shown in the comparison chart other users have posted, WS12 owners did get the Logos 8 Sermon Builder feature for free.

Were you not aware we had given that feature away, or are you asking about/for something different?

No, I was not. But this proves my point that Logos does care.  Thanks for letting me know that. 

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 3:35 PM

xnman:

Maybe you guys don't understand... The reason I think WS users should get Sermon Builders is because they had such capability in WS...  I don't care what other companies do (i.e. Tesco, etc).... that's not the point....  but if WS users had that capability in WS then they should get it in Logos....  and they did have the capability in WS... 

And to give WS users a lesser package (one that does not have capability to build sermons ) means Logos is taking away capabilities that WS users had.... 

But people that don't know WS don't know the difference. They seem to think that WS users is encroaching or "getting something they should not have"  ... Such is not the case.  It was not WS users fault that this merger happened and I am sure that LifeWay and Faithlife wanted it to be fair for the WS user... But the L9 Base and Starter packages that most of WS users was put in does not have the capability for WS user to create sermons in Logos. They had this capability in WS.... 

I'm not angry, not upset. After spending time going through the "learning curve" (and still going through it) of Logos...  I like it. It's a great program.

But I do think... WS users did loose capability of being able to have their sermons in Logos.. as the did have them in WS....  I was one of them. 

Now.... I am a man... I do make mistakes... and I fully understand that I may have missed something.... so.... lay it on me! I can take it.   I think....  Indifferent

I agree that if that feature was in WS, if such was available in Logos, that feature should have been provided to WS users when Logos took over WS.

But this is NOT the first time (or I should say NOT the only time) I saw Logos take away resources we previously had in WORDsearch, and they failed to provide notice of items they took away.

I do agree with the suggestion above that Logos fails to fully understand the WORDsearch they took over, as seen in some of their actions thus far.   Too bad they were not better briefed about WS when assuming responsibility for that.

I admit I know very little about the Sermon Builder and if such was or was not provided to WS users in Logos.  Only agreeing with the principle that if Logos had it, and it was in WS, that should have been part of the transition package.  Logos did declare in advance there may be some features that may not be available in Logos if not already in Logos, but if both have it, then WS users should get it if they did not already.   It may in fact be there, but again do not know if all the same features are there or if it is different.   Only agreeing with the principle quoted above, whether or not his assertion is true, I do not know.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2020 4:30 PM

xnman:
So, my reasoning... of Logos "should" have given Sermon Builder to WS users is valid...

I assume you are using a standard deonotic logic and recognize that validity says nothing about truth. But being serious, how do the features of Sermon Builder compare to those in WS? Without that comparison, I have no clue as to the merit of your argument. But I do know that when one purchases software, there is no guarantee of the viability of the product over time -- you can't expect to be able to use it 20 years from now. Whether or not there will have been a migration path to protect your investment varies by company/merger.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2020 3:00 AM

MJ. Smith:

xnman:
So, my reasoning... of Logos "should" have given Sermon Builder to WS users is valid...

I assume you are using a standard deonotic logic and recognize that validity says nothing about truth. But being serious, how do the features of Sermon Builder compare to those in WS? Without that comparison, I have no clue as to the merit of your argument. But I do know that when one purchases software, there is no guarantee of the viability of the product over time -- you can't expect to be able to use it 20 years from now. Whether or not there will have been a migration path to protect your investment varies by company/merger.

Personally, sermon building in WS, IMO, was more like a word processor. But one thing is certain, "a body at rest tends to stay at rest and a body in motion tends to stay in motion".... which translate to... maybe I was more comfortable with WS and thus think it's better.  After I use SB for a while in Logos...  I'll probably think different...

I agree nothing built by man will last forever... I don't expect it too. My argument was based on "my thinking WS users lost capability in the transfer at this time" and I am glad to be proven wrong in that assumption. Seems that when I open my mouth about Logos, I learn Logos has taken care of it and I didn't know it.... Not every assumption man makes is right either... Tongue Tied

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 4832
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2020 11:16 AM

Ricky Daugherty:
I admit I know very little about the Sermon Builder and if such was or was not provided to WS users in Logos.

As has been noted multiple times in this very thread, including several posts above yours by a Faithlife employee, Faithlife provided Sermon Builder to WS users for free:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
As shown in the comparison chart other users have posted, WS12 owners did get the Logos 8 Sermon Builder feature for free.

“I want you to know how the people should behave in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” - 1 Timothy 3:15 (EOB:NT).

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2020 7:47 AM

SineNomine:

Ricky Daugherty:
I admit I know very little about the Sermon Builder and if such was or was not provided to WS users in Logos.

As has been noted multiple times in this very thread, including several posts above yours by a Faithlife employee, Faithlife provided Sermon Builder to WS users for free:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
As shown in the comparison chart other users have posted, WS12 owners did get the Logos 8 Sermon Builder feature for free.

I don't want to be linger this  But.... There is a word left out of your post, quoted here....... the word is "Some" ....  "Some" WS....(i.e. WS 12) did get SB... but, truth is, other WS people had access to the capability also, and many of them are/were preachers and such. 

I understand this.....  Logos had to draw the line somewhere....  and I believe this was agreed to by Lifeway and Faithlife... imho.

xn = Christan  man=man

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