Logos 9

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This post has 96 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 5495
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 4:04 PM

That has not always been the case with my life experience with this company and I was unaware of that change in process but as you said if there is a problem, it is a bug to be fixed and how much priory is going to be given to fixing a bug in the prior version of the software when there are bugs or missing feature in the new version which marketing has said would be functional at initial release and now development team has to work to remedy those issue.

Another major mis truth with Logos 8 was we were told we could upgrade to the new notes when we choose. This was false. I was converted over to new notes with no say in it and the mobile app was also put on the new notes with no user choice meaning even if I remained in n the old notes on the desktop they would be orphaned from my mobile notes.

Whether people like it being said or not FL botched the release of Logos 8 with broken software that did not meet the marketing hype and was not ready to be released. From what s FL employee to me there was not enough fingers on keyboards for the notes system to be ready in the time frame company executives set for its release. And that’s just the notes system, the home page, despite the marketing was not up to scratch.

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

DIsciple II:
but with Logos after a new release you basically can’t add any purchases post that point in time to your library because they say you need the latest software release for that book to function and so you get forced into upgrading or not having the book you want for months

All supported versions of the software are updated to support newly published books. This includes (after a major release) the prior version of the software for quite some time after the release.

Logos 8 was released around Oct 29, 2018. Logos 7 remained supported until May 28, 2019, which means that until that date, lack of support for a new resource in Logos 7 would have been considered a bug to be fixed with an additional release.

For example, the release notes for Logos 7.19 SR-1 (released on May 16, 2019) indicate "added support for new resource types": https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_7.19_SR-1 Likewise for 7.18 SR-1.

Posts 11332
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 4:10 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
I'm sorry, I can't understand what you are saying here.

I could have let it go another 6-7 months!

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 3933
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 4:39 PM

L8.0 marketing or issues probably shouldn't be viewed as a prediction or expectation of how L9 will be marketed or released.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 5495
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 5:10 PM

Except that they are typical of how FL operate. marketing over sells what the product  will be capable of doing from day 1. Developers release software as is without any upfront admission of what is missing or broken and company execs wait to see what users complain about. After that we get a we get customer facing staff left to explain deadlines for release had to be met but development couldn’t get x,y & z done on time so well address them in the next few maintenances releases and hope to have sorted out by the full x,1 release. And then a web page goes up explaining what wasn’t done and wI’ll be addressed in future releases. 

I’ll be very happy if they prove me wrong this time around.

PetahChristian:

L8.0 marketing or issues probably shouldn't be viewed as a prediction or expectation of how L9 will be marketed or released.

Posts 411
LogosEmployee
Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 5:21 PM

DIsciple II:
That has not always been the case with my life experience with this company and I was unaware of that change in process but as you said if there is a problem, it is a bug to be fixed and how much priory is going to be given to fixing a bug in the prior version of the software when there are bugs or missing feature in the new version which marketing has said would be functional at initial release and now development team has to work to remedy those issue.

You have a point that we don't fix non-critical bugs in old versions of the software. Like all software companies, we would rather invest in moving forward than spend resources to keep propping up the past. 

Andrew is (correctly) saying that we have always considered "can't read books" to be a critical bug. 
A "Maintenance" version of Logos falls under the category of "supported," and will continue to get updates to use newly published books. 

Feature or Support Supported Maintenance Unsupported
Textual Resources Some
Sync Documents & Settings Some
Access Web Services Some
Critical Bug Fixes  
Phone & Email Support  
New Features    
Non-Critical Bug Fixes    
New OS Support    
Old OS Compatibility   Some Some
Forum Support Some Some

(Table from https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007391412-About-Free-Support .)

Disciple, it seems like the main point of your grievance that you feel forced into an upgrade that doesn't meet your standard of quality, and you would rather wait 6 months for it to get polished. Let me assure you, that's a fine choice! I expect Logos 8 will be supported for many months after Logos 9 is released. You will never be forced to purchase an upgrade to stay on a supported version. 

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

Message me on Faithlife.com >>

Posts 5495
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 5:43 PM

This is incorrect Adam. As a connect subscriber I was automatically upgraded to 8 without choosing to upgrade. Will this happen again with 9?

You are also missing a big point I am making. It is not just that FL release a poor quality product in the first release it is that marketing makes it out to be what it is not and the company does not acknowledge the short comings until after customers complain instead of being on the front foot by not putting out misleading marketing and by be upfront at the time FL releases the software about what they know is missing or not working. Thus should not be done a week or two later but concurrent with the release. FL takes customer goodwill for granted rather than showing customers respect.

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

DIsciple II:
That has not always been the case with my life experience with this company and I was unaware of that change in process but as you said if there is a problem, it is a bug to be fixed and how much priory is going to be given to fixing a bug in the prior version of the software when there are bugs or missing feature in the new version which marketing has said would be functional at initial release and now development team has to work to remedy those issue.

You have a point that we don't fix non-critical bugs in old versions of the software. Like all software companies, we would rather invest in moving forward than spend resources to keep propping up the past. 

Andrew is (correctly) saying that we have always considered "can't read books" to be a critical bug. 
A "Maintenance" version of Logos falls under the category of "supported," and will continue to get updates to use newly published books. 

Feature or Support Supported Maintenance Unsupported
Textual Resources Some
Sync Documents & Settings Some
Access Web Services Some
Critical Bug Fixes  
Phone & Email Support  
New Features    
Non-Critical Bug Fixes    
New OS Support    
Old OS Compatibility   Some Some
Forum Support Some Some

(Table from https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007391412-About-Free-Support .)

Disciple, it seems like the main point of your grievance that you feel forced into an upgrade that doesn't meet your standard of quality, and you would rather wait 6 months for it to get polished. Let me assure you, that's a fine choice! I expect Logos 8 will be supported for many months after Logos 9 is released. You will never be forced to purchase an upgrade to stay on a supported version. 

Posts 37
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 6:56 PM

DIsciple II:

Except that they are typical of how FL operate. marketing over sells what the product  will be capable of doing from day 1. Developers release software as is without any upfront admission of what is missing or broken and company execs wait to see what users complain about. After that we get a we get customer facing staff left to explain deadlines for release had to be met but development couldn’t get x,y & z done on time so well address them in the next few maintenances releases and hope to have sorted out by the full x,1 release. And then a web page goes up explaining what wasn’t done and wI’ll be addressed in future releases. 

I’ll be very happy if they prove me wrong this time around.

Let's not forget the Theology Guide debacle.  It was definitely not ready for prime time upon release.  Still leaves a sour taste with me.  But to your point, I think FL marketing has generally toned it down -- except when showcasing a brand new product. 

Posts 4112
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 7:00 PM

DIsciple II:

This is incorrect Adam. As a connect subscriber I was automatically upgraded to 8 without choosing to upgrade. Will this happen again with 9?

You are also missing a big point I am making. It is not just that FL release a poor quality product in the first release it is that marketing makes it out to be what it is not and the company does not acknowledge the short comings until after customers complain instead of being on the front foot by not putting out misleading marketing and by be upfront at the time FL releases the software about what they know is missing or not working. Thus should not be done a week or two later but concurrent with the release. FL takes customer goodwill for granted rather than showing customers respect.



I have silently disagreed to this point.

However I need to point out that one of the perks of Now was having the latest greatest iteration of the software. I haven't kept up with the marketing with Connect as I'd rather own, than lease. But if its like Now was, then yes. Day 1. welcome to 9 :). Its one of the perks you pay for. Call customer service and make sure... Because if you don't want one of the perks you pay for, I'm pretty sure that will be the only way to stop it.


L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 4452
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 7:57 PM

abondservant:
Because if you don't want one of the perks you pay for, I'm pretty sure that will be the only way to stop it.

Disciple II could also change/set his update settings so that program updates don't download automatically. Then he can just run updates at his leisure (after double-checking that 9 hasn't been released) however often/long until it actually is released, whereupon he can decide whether to download it or not.

“God watches over the affairs of those who truly love him without their worrying about them.” - St. John of the Cross

Posts 5495
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 8:07 PM

The point is I was upgrade to 8 without choosing to upgrade. I should have been able to stay on 7 and allow my system to pick up updates to 7 as they were made available. SGould not have been reason to turn off updates as you are suggesting. And I should be able to stay on 8 and pick up updates to it as they come avai rather than being automatically updated to 9. And I should not have to cancel me connect membership and loose the benefits i make use of just to avoid being automatically upgraded before I am ready to upgrade. 

SineNomine:

abondservant:
Because if you don't want one of the perks you pay for, I'm pretty sure that will be the only way to stop it.

Disciple II could also change/set his update settings so that program updates don't download automatically. Then he can just run updates at his leisure (after double-checking that 9 hasn't been released) however often/long until it actually is released, whereupon he can decide whether to download it or not.

Posts 5495
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 8:10 PM

Totally agree Paul the lack of adequate tagging and prepared datasets for the theology guide and associated features left a sour tastes for a number of people. It felt like it was done last minute.

Paul Strickert:

DIsciple II:

Except that they are typical of how FL operate. marketing over sells what the product  will be capable of doing from day 1. Developers release software as is without any upfront admission of what is missing or broken and company execs wait to see what users complain about. After that we get a we get customer facing staff left to explain deadlines for release had to be met but development couldn’t get x,y & z done on time so well address them in the next few maintenances releases and hope to have sorted out by the full x,1 release. And then a web page goes up explaining what wasn’t done and wI’ll be addressed in future releases. 

I’ll be very happy if they prove me wrong this time around.

Let's not forget the Theology Guide debacle.  It was definitely not ready for prime time upon release.  Still leaves a sour taste with me.  But to your point, I think FL marketing has generally toned it down -- except when showcasing a brand new product. 

Posts 328
Michael Parry-Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 21 2020 8:33 PM

FL takes customer goodwill for granted rather than showing customers respect.

This has been going on for some time, 

I think FL  needs to be alot better,  8 was so bad I could not use it ,to May bugs

And at one point just could not use it , with my library been so big spent a lot on resources

I do not want to use any other software, 

I purchased a competitors software . Which I used untill  8   bugs add been   fixed

I  used  FL compactor  which I paid and used until 8 was fixed 

Now do I go Will 9 May be I may stick with the other software 

takes customer goodwill for granted rather than showing customers respect.

Yes thay do 

Mick
Posts 2305
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2020 4:16 AM

One, two,
Buckle my shoe;
Three, four,
Knock at the door;
Five, six,
Pick up sticks;
Seven, eight,
Lay them straight:
Nine, ten,
A big fat hen...

Personally, I think L8 software is absolutely amazing. L4 was my least favorite even though the idea was good.  Since then, Logos software has been flying upward like a homesick angel. The notes format change caught me and caused some effort on my part, but that smoothed out almost two years ago.  What is left to complain about?

No fear is going on in my house. I say: Bring on L9!  I hope we get a big fat hen for Thanksgiving! 

Posts 18671
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2020 6:57 AM

DIsciple II:
This is incorrect Adam. As a connect subscriber I was automatically upgraded to 8 without choosing to upgrade. Will this happen again with 9?

Suggestion is using command Set Update Channel to Manual to avoid automatic program updating. When want to update/upgrade, can use command Set Update Channel to Stable OR use current stable installer => https://www.logos.com/install OR https://verbum.com/install 

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 4112
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2020 7:02 AM

GaoLu:

Personally, I think L8 software is absolutely amazing. L4 was my least favorite even though the idea was good.  



I started with L2... I loved L2. L3 confused and aggravated me. I didn't use it more than a handful of times between the release of 3 and the release of 4. 4-8 (nearly presumably 9) I've bought in quite heavily, and have loved every new iteration. 

4 simplified a lot of the confusion for me from 3. 

Each version since has gotten better and better for my uses. 

Expecting great things from the great minds in bellingham for 9.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 5495
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2020 8:42 AM

Wow resorting to children’s rhymes now,  just when I thought I’d seen it all on these forums from FL fan boys. You win the internet today for your pure ignorance. The issue is not Logos 8 but the quality of the initial release and the lack of upfront communication from the get go by FL of its flaws. No fear in my home either, in fact quite the opposite as I am more than willing to call a spade a spade and be honest about what FL despite knowing I was bound to get a response like yours at some point,

Well I hope you feel all warm and fuzzy now for defending FL’s honour and showing you think it’s appropriate to respond to multiple people who have expressed they were disappointed with what FL initially released for Logos 8.

Though I would say you and a some other people need to work on learning in your interpretatio skills because you all clearly reading into thud discussion things that were never and basing your response upon that rather than what was actually said.

 

GaoLu:

One, two,
Buckle my shoe;
Three, four,
Knock at the door;
Five, six,
Pick up sticks;
Seven, eight,
Lay them straight:
Nine, ten,
A big fat hen...

Personally, I think L8 software is absolutely amazing. L4 was my least favorite even though the idea was good.  Since then, Logos software has been flying upward like a homesick angel. The notes format change caught me and caused some effort on my part, but that smoothed out almost two years ago.  What is left to complain about?

No fear is going on in my house. I say: Bring on L9!  I hope we get a big fat hen for Thanksgiving! 

Posts 5495
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2020 9:07 AM

Appreciate the attempt at a helpful suggestion but it is not helpful as you have not read everything that had been said. The issue is FL saying one thing and doing another.  If I had wanted to stay on Logos 7 and get updates for that then your suggestion would not helper because as soon as I ran an update the software would have upgraded me to 8 rather than pick up the update for 7 because I am a connect subscriber.

The real issue though is FL marketed one thing and dished up something a lot less than what they marketed. I am not talking about Logos 8,17 but Logos 8.0. I am not talking about the strategy or direction that was taken with Logos 8 I am talking about the fact that Logos 8.0 did not match up to what FL marketing said was being delivered , that is was released with known broken code and FL was not open and upfront about that fact until customers complained - maybe they thought we wouldn’t notice they had broken the home page etc. Note once again for those who like to read what they want to read this is comments about Logos 8.0, it’s lack of completeness in relation to what FL marketing said was being delivered.

p.s. despite what some may also think I am still smiling Smile and I am looking forward to seeing what Logos 9 brings. All i want is honest marketing about what it will bring upon release and if things are broken FL being honest about that concurrently with its release rather than a week or two late. They knew what was broken when they released Logos 8 but did not admit to it concurrently with its release but instead delayed communicating that. Managing user expectations is something I suspect gets thrown out the window at FL because you can’t let the truth get in the way of marketing telling a good story - a bit like politicians today also.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

DIsciple II:
This is incorrect Adam. As a connect subscriber I was automatically upgraded to 8 without choosing to upgrade. Will this happen again with 9?

Suggestion is using command Set Update Channel to Manual to avoid automatic program updating. When want to update/upgrade, can use command Set Update Channel to Stable OR use current stable installer => https://www.logos.com/install OR https://verbum.com/install 

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 11332
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2020 9:07 AM

abondservant:
I started with L2... I loved L2. L3 confused and aggravated me. I didn't use it more than a handful of times between the release of 3 and the release of 4.

Oh my ... Libby is super-wound-up. "How could ANYONE say such a thing?!"  But I was surprised MJ found Libby to be a pain (I think).  I liked Libby because she showed under-the-hood goings-on. Indeed, using L7, it's still quicker to ask Libby (about connections). Granted, Libby's search prowess is embarrassing.

Well, maybe a new layout will calm Libby down. Ha.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 45
Pastor Josh Monda | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2020 10:37 AM

Good grief.  I did not think this thread was going to blow up like this.  I was just wondering about logos 9 because even though I used Logos I also was a WordSearch user and honestly used WordSearch more because their prices for books were considerable cheaper.  So most of my commentaries were in WordSearch.  Anyway There was sale for WordSearch users and I did not want to spend the remainder of my professional expense on something if Logos 9 was coming out. 

If I am real honest hat I wish Logos had more than anything right now would be the ability to edit my sermon in logos on my iPad.  I want to be able to highlight and even draw if need be but for now I would just take highlighting.  I hat pulling out my computer every Saturday s oI can highlight etc because right now I preach from Sermon editor on my iPad. 

Posts 269
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2020 10:46 AM

Michael Parry-Thomas:
I think FL  needs to be alot better,  8 was so bad I could not use it ,to May bugs

Funny, I was up and running immediately. Not sure how my usage differs from yours but I thought 8 was good out of the gate. Truthfully, I have more problems with Microsoft Office than with Logos.

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