They Got Logos 9 Silver SOOOOO Wrong!

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John Kaess | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 26 2020 8:48 AM

In past years I've typically bought either the Silver, Gold or Platinum packages when a new version comes out. My thought has typically been that Silver aims mostly for teachers of Bible Study Groups, Adult CE or Small Groups, while Gold and Platinum tend to aim more towards pastors, people in full time ministry, and seminarians. I may be completely wrong, but that's the way I've looked at those packages.

So, the first thing I did was go and look at the Silver package to see what it would add to my library and tools. What I saw was a LOT of Christian Counseling resources and John Piper resources. I'm not reformed and could care less about John Piper, but I'd ignore that if it were just his books, but his sermons? Sermons are not what I look for in Silver. Silver also adds tons of counseling resources, again something that is irrelevant to me and seems more oriented for pastors and those in full time ministry. I'm not, nor will I ever become, any kind of counselor. It's just not in my gift set. Teaching is what I use Logos for, and Silver is the package that usually gives me those resources.

What this means, is that these irrelevant resources are going to also be in Gold and Platinum also, so I don't need to consider those upgrades, but at least it makes sense to me that those resources would be in Gold and Platinum. In my mind, Logos has misread the market for their Silver package and managed to build something I don't see any value in at all.

At this point, I'll be looking at the full feature upgrade, but likely not any of the packages. That's a shame, because I would enjoy having the Carta resources that comes in Silver.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 9:55 AM

Silver only has 7 counselling resources primarily to make the new Counselling guide work well. There are more in both Gold and Platinum.

I bought Silver to complete Tyndale Commentaries and for the Carta package along with NET bible RI. My cost was much less than buying those separately.

I would suggest looking at the denominational packages silver or gold depending on the package and above as they have Carta collections. Perhaps those would better suite you if you want Carta.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 10:04 AM

John Kaess:
So, the first thing I did was go and look at the Silver package to see what it would add to my library and tools.

Ignoring the stuff that has no value to you, is the stuff that's in Silver and worth something to you (like Carta resources) collectively worth to you at least your dynamically priced cost of Silver? If so, then it's a good purchase for you.

“God watches over the affairs of those who truly love him without their worrying about them.” - St. John of the Cross

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Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 10:05 AM

I have viewed the various levels differently than you - and that is OK. It has been obvious since I first got Logos in 2002 that "Standard" base packages are not aimed at people like me, so probably your reading of intended market is probably closer to correct than mine - since you viewed yourself as within that market. I suppose that is more than a bit of a concern, but when I look at the sticker price on full Silver, I would think that most of the people that can justify spending so much work somehow in the church. Yeah, upgrades for users with significant libraries are a lot cheaper - since we have been paying in over years. But I gotta think that the base packages are marketed towards getting new users at least as much as us old timers.

The great thing about Logos is their long standing policy that the software is free, and new versions of the software will continue to work with any resources you have purchased previously. This means that when an upgrade cycle comes out that features a new Counseling Guide, and so puts lots of counseling works in the base packages, you can sit out the library upgrade if you want. It is their job to convince you to buy more - and they certainly know how to push it.

So what I do when upgrade time comes around is to look at resources that are featured and are interesting to me. And then I look to see what all base packages have the most that is interesting to me. So I got an Anglican base package years ago to get Tom Wright's NT for Everyone. I got Orthodox Silver for many volumes of church fathers in English. I got Reformed Basic years ago for the Battles translation of Calvin's Institutes. I got a Lutheran package for Bonhoeffer. And so if you want Carta, look to see what packages include it, and what all else interesting is in those packages. 

And so when upgrade time comes around, I spend days wandering around the Logos website to see what deals are interesting to me. Some look like obvious good deals, but I still have lots of window shopping to look forward to.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 1:17 PM

John Kaess:
ilver also adds tons of counseling resources, again something that is irrelevant to me and seems more oriented for pastors and those in full time ministry.

In the Facebook Launch event when they talked about Libraries - they mentioned that Silver is built for lay teachers like you AND associate/assistant church staff and beginning seminarians who most likely do not preach weekly with the need for Gold. I sense this is why the counseling tools.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 1:35 PM

John Kaess:
At this point, I'll be looking at the full feature upgrade, but likely not any of the packages.

John, you've got to do what is best for you, obviously. I wanted to add that I also look at lots of resources within the base packages as fluff, irrelevant, or as books that are not high priority for me. 

However, I have found this method to work for me: I scan each denominational package and note which resources they include and what that price would be if I bought it individually. This year I made a hand written sheet for each denom I thought I was most interested in and made a grid from Silver to Diamond.  I started at Silver because a) that was the level at which I could get ANY free mobileEd course. And it begins to take more advantage of the feature sets.  Gold, because that is the base level for all of the feature sets, from what I understand. And then Platinum and Diamond just to see what major resources are on the horizon that I might want to work up to (like major commentary sets).

Under each column (silver, gold, etc) I note the resources that first appear in that denomination set and what that individual price is.  At the top I note what each package will cost me. If I notice that a particular package has the most attractive set of resources that I already want, and the price is LESS than if I purchased them individually, then that makes me feel comfortable to go for that package.  I also find that sometimes I will use those other resources as well (for instance, you MIGHT be asked to give counsel to a friend and you could access those resources as a starting point to help them or give input before referring them on to someone more trained).

A final note: if, say, you decide you might want a Silver or Gold package, it seems to save you money when you purchase the Starter first, then individually purchase all the way up the line until you get to the level that you want.

Also, occasionally I will scan the Starter and Bronze packages of other denom's I normally am not interested in because at times they will offer an encyclopedia or other resource that I really want at a great price, far lower than that resource itself.  You might discover some gems.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 1:48 PM

Friedrich:
Also, occasionally I will scan the Starter and Bronze packages of other denom's I normally am not interested in because at times they will offer an encyclopedia or other resource that I really want at a great price, far lower than that resource itself.  You might discover some gems.

YES! I've actually bought several of the denominational starter packages over the past few years because of being able to get some great resources for a really good price.

Friedrich:
Under each column (silver, gold, etc) I note the resources that first appear in that denomination set and what that individual price is.  At the top I note what each package will cost me. If I notice that a particular package has the most attractive set of resources that I already want, and the price is LESS than if I purchased them individually, then that makes me feel comfortable to go for that package. 

I like the approach you use, but I can't help but think that the manual steps you are taking to find the best package are exactly the kind of thing which you should be able to automate on the Logos site. It's a shame there is no way to have the site throw up a table/spreadsheet based around which level and denominational packages have resources you are interested in and what they might offer that you don't already own with your dynamic price. It screams out for automation, and while logos will do this now, it only does it within particular denominational packages, not across different denominational packages.

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Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 2:13 PM

Ken McGuire:

And so when upgrade time comes around, I spend days wandering around the Logos website to see what deals are interesting to me. Some look like obvious good deals, but I still have lots of window shopping to look forward to.

This is me also.Cool

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 2:16 PM

John Kaess:
while logos will do this now, it only does it within particular denominational packages

if I am understanding you correctly, I think that has changed this year. If you go to the homepage and select "compare base packages," then select the "tab" that is called "compare books" you will see in the left hand column you have a "custom compare" button that will allow you to compare up to three (we've asked for more, but don't have that yet) packages, each one can be from a different denom (like compare Gold in Standard, Anglican, and Methodist).  That's a nice new feature.

Yeah, it can be labor intensive, but wasn't that big a deal.  Also another approach I use is just check out a few sets I am interested in (say, ICC commentaries or AYBD, and when I click on that set/product, I can see what packages they are available in.  Sometimes I am surprised that they are offered in a less expensive set. But the point being, I see right away where it can be purchased in a BP. Doing that with a few major items helps me hone in on a few key denominational packages.

I'm glad you have already experienced the benefit of a few good purchases! 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 2:23 PM

David Thomas:

In the Facebook Launch event when they talked about Libraries - they mentioned that Silver is built for lay teachers like you AND associate/assistant church staff and beginning seminarians who most likely do not preach weekly with the need for Gold. I sense this is why the counseling tools.

Don't currently see a need for the counseling tools but went for three silver level libraries.  Thank you for dynamic pricing - the third was not free but well off the price I first saw it at. 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2020 2:35 PM

Claude Brown Jr:

Ken McGuire:

And so [...] I spend days wandering around the Logos website ...

This is me also.Cool

i feel seen...Big Smile

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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