So, who else has found L9 to be a bit...underwhelming?

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Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 12:34 AM

A few of my perspectives...

Bible software has really matured over the last 20 years. We can do many of the things we dreamed about with the first computer assisted Bible study programs and much more. So innovation will come at a higher level of imagination, resources and investment.  Keep in mind, software facilitates study and to a certain degree, design work will fit within how people are engaging the texts and research, both at the scholarly and casual levels.

I think due to this, most of the time Bible software will now 'evolve' rather than make dramatic leaps forward in new ways of Bible study.  A major version release like this will be likely to be more of milestone or marker of evolution, rather than a new way of using the software.  Logos 9 to me seemed to set the stage for some new possibilities particularly with Factbook and its supporting datasets. I am speculating that the work that they are doing to Factbook will spill over into some of the other guides and overall design of the software architecture over time, and I agree with M.J. Smith, keep an eye on Bible Explorer. 

Of course this all needs to be done in a way that the tool is powerful enough for scholars to really peel back layers to get at the text and mine for resources, but also approachable enough for the generalists that it is user friendly and intuitive.  Not an easy path to navigate, particularly as Logos is already a bit of a Swiss Army knife as it is.

Personally, I prefer an 'evolving' development path anyhow. Most of the time major overhauls come with a major relearning of the tool and a lot of stuff gets broken.  When a software package changes incrementally, you can spend time growing and learning with the tool, while continuing to focus on why you bought it in the first place. Performance and optimisation, is hard to keep in balance if you are out on the bleeding edge of development as well, because it takes time to mature coding.

If I can indulge a bit, I think that while I have a wish list of little bits and pieces I would love to see in Logos to make the functionality of the Swiss Army knife fit more specific to me, I think the areas of innovation really need to continue at the fundamentals of what Factbook is possibly trying to address.  If you have a massive library, you can be sitting on a treasure trove of data on a topic and not really know it.  Or even if you know it's there, you don't always have time to manually open and consult hundreds of resources.  The Greek Grammar Ontology is a great example of mitigating this and BRAVO for the Factbook Bible Book section that pulls introductions, outlines, etc. from multiple commentaries and brings them together all in one place.  HUGE time savers.

So I like the current course of direction. I am hoping this tact is applied particularly to the huge volumes of information we now have digitally from church history, particularly those who are from liturgical backgrounds and use the church calendar as a framework for systematic study.   

I also would add that the potential of using the information from Lexham Research Commentaries is yet to be mined and has some exciting possibilities to be more integrated into the software.  The same could be said for the Exegetical Summaries Series as well.  Greater integration of studies which leverage maps and archaeological media is also an exciting area yet to be fully developed... we are visual learners as well as textual.

In terms of innovation, I also see artificial intelligence as a possible area of exploration.  If I am studying a certain topic, it would be cool if the software could begin to anticipate where I want to go and highlight possible pathways of exploration. This has to be done with care though to not constrain imaginative and creative thinking, particularly in keeping the Biblical text central. 

Anyhow, it's fun to dream and think about this stuff. We have cool tools!

Posts 30
Fábio Silva | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 2:09 AM

Yes and probably Logos 10 will feel underwhelming as well. 

It's not FaithLife's fault, it's just how products work. As a product matures it starts getting harder to have anything that feels like groundbreaking unless there is a big shift in technology or architecture. 

Look at the smartphone market, are there developments? Yes. But they are always incremental QOL type. When there is a huge technological jump we can have something like the first Iphone or AI Assistants but for the year-on-year development everything feels slower
 

Posts 1045
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 4:10 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:
In terms of innovation, I also see artificial intelligence as a possible area of exploration.  If I am studying a certain topic, it would be cool if the software could begin to anticipate where I want to go and highlight possible pathways of exploration.

Of everything you said this is the only thing I disagree.

Logos' value has been the manual tagging, the "Logos research edition", the datasets.

Also, may be it is a bit harsh to say disagree "AI as a possible area of exploration", because AI is a very broad term. To a certain extent Logos has AI already.

But the example you gave about "anticipating where you want to go". This is about predicting you. What wrong with that? Briefly if it successfully predicts you then it fail to predict the next guy.

"Highlight possible pathways of exploration" may be even broader. But what defines "possible pathways"? There are infinitely many combination of pathways. How do you sort them out? Essentially you want a few to stand out. So you need to have way to "score" them, to say one is better than the other. If it were a game like Go, there are objective rules to define your "score". Here you don't.

Lastly, while AI is a very broad term, the late advances in AI in machine learning. There are major advances in AI by that, but also there are impenetrable walls that has no break through yet. General AI will not be achieved without major paradigm shift. Recent break through in machine learning essentially is a glorified curve fitting. You need tons of data to fit a curve well, and you need to know what you're fitting already (called supervised machine learning.) There's another field called unsupervised machine learning which basically what machines to learn things by itself, without knowing "what you're fitting". It may have applications on things that don't mind about the truth (such as the stock market, as long as you earn money then it is great), but here in Logos what you want to seek is "the truth".

Simple example: assume you write a unsupervised machine learning algorithm to classify different authors. i.e. it can tell you say Genius is written by N writers. How are you able to trust it? The "proof" they have, which basically is a huge no. of parameters, is going to be very difficult to convince you they have the right answer.

This is not only a problem for religion, but also in Science. Although it is increasing popular to incorporate machine learning in Science, AFAIK most if not all is not about proving things (not to be confused with program that prove Mathematical theorem, which is a very different beast), but some sort of detections or classifications, etc.

P.S. Just trying to think of an example of how machine learning could have benefits Logos. Let's say tagging resources. Let's suppose you can write a machine learning algorithm that can help you tag a resource. If that's true then the speed of tagging, hence the quantity of the resources tagged at launch (such as Counseling Guide) will be much greater than humanly can. But do know that no matter which machine learning algorithm you have, there's always loss on new (unseen to the machine before) data. Hence there will be tagging mistakes. And even good algorithms makes a lot of mistake. IIRC even the state of the art image classification algorithm can misclassify newly generated data at around ~40%.

Posts 8656
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 4:27 AM

JoshInRI:
Those of us who helped beta test the new "iteration" of Logos were also underwhelmed except for the updates to Factbook.

I'm afraid you don't speak for me.  

The counseling guide and the dark mode for reading, together with the additional sermon capabilities and the manager combine to make L9 a compelling upgrade for me.  

I'm in budget limbo at the moment and waiting for my ability to purchase L9 gold so I can continue using the functions that I had gotten quite used to during the beta.

Were there earth shattering, mind numbing additions to L9?  I suppose that depends on ones perspective.  But I would certainly claim that the transition from 8 → 9 was more than merely iterative. 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 4:32 AM

TCBlack:

JoshInRI:
Those of us who helped beta test the new "iteration" of Logos were also underwhelmed except for the updates to Factbook.

I'm afraid you don't speak for me.  

The counseling guide and the dark mode for reading, together with the additional sermon capabilities and the manager combine to make L9 a compelling upgrade for me.  

I'm in budget limbo at the moment and waiting for my ability to purchase L9 gold so I can continue using the functions that I had gotten quite used to during the beta.

Were there earth shattering, mind numbing additions to L9?  I suppose that depends on ones perspective.  But I would certainly claim that the transition from 8 → 9 was more than merely iterative. 

I completely agree with TCBlack on this. No more needs to be said.

Posts 1045
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 4:39 AM

Christopher Bucklin:

First off, I love Logos Bible Software. It's seriously one of my favorite things. I bought a Microsoft Surface Pro laptop that I carry around everywhere just for my Logos usage. So no hate from me here. I'm a loyal customer and fan.

Secondly, I'm not really an old-timer, so I don't have a lot of experience with how upgrades and new releases flow. I first bought Logos 7, and then Logos 8 came out four months later, and I immediately upgraded. I remember significant changes and features: workflows, canvas, multiple guides... etc. So I was really excited to see what innovations Logos 9 would bring, especially as I read through all the great suggestions on the forum dedicated to Logos 9 Ideas.

And so, I purchased L9 on release day. As it turns out, I have to say... I'm a bit underwhelmed with what I have found. Don't get me wrong, there are some good things here... but it seems like most of these things are simply Quality of Life changes: Commentary divisions, Dark Mode etc... Nothing really creative or innovative like I saw in the transition to Logos 8. 

Further, (and as a loyal fan of Logos, I offer this criticism with nothing but a positive bent) it seems that the few things that were implemented, weren't implemented very well. For example, why do you have to restart the whole program to apply the dark mode theme, and do the same to get it back to light mode? Even during their demo video, they skipped that, simply fading the screen to dark mode with some camera trickery right after the button was clicked. What kind of programming is this?

And what's with the "preaching mode" loading in a web browser, so that you can't enter preaching mode unless you are online? Seriously? Why did anyone ever think this was a good idea? What's the advantage of this? Why would it not just load in the program itself?

And the Counseling Guide - I've put several entries into it, and the majority of them only pulled information from the "quick guide" series of Counseling that comes with the L9 Base package. I've bought multiple library expansions of counseling resources, and it doesn't seem to be consulting them. Kinda felt like just a basic search through this quick reference guide. Also, at least for the topics I searched, most had NO bible verses associated. When I looked up "sexual desire", it only had four verses, and none were from the Song of Solomon. Really? We aren't pointing to the SOS when counseling patients with issues of sexual desire? Honestly, it just feels shallow.

Anyway - no, I don't regret my upgrade because any upgrades to this already great software are better than no upgrades - plus new base package libraries. But as both a loyal, and honest customer, I have to say, I feel a bit let down with Logos 9. Perhaps Logos 8 was simply that good of an upgrade.

Just some of my opinions:

Don't be a "loyal customer and fan". I shouldn't tell you what to do. But that's just what I'd do. It is easy to fall in love with the tools we use (especially in the beginning like first time of using Apple products, first time of using Logos...) But we should not be loyal to it. And fan may as well be a positive way to call fanboy, where people often said "Fanboy with Loss of All Objectivity (FLAO)". By the way it is sad to see that the top comments in the Logos Unbound event on Facebook are people calling "Logos fanboy blah blah blah, they should have fixed this and that."

(I think it almost goes without saying that we shouldn't be on the other end of the spectrum like some people just keep complaining here or on Facebook... I wish they just take the refund and leave. We should appreciate what they do even if the tool doesn't fit us.)

Logos has been released on a biannual schedule since Logos 5, similar to some softwares you've seen in the world, such as macOS, iOS, Windows, etc., but unlike many others in so called semantically versioned softwares. Long story short, it means that a Logos major release (defined as the increment of the first version number) is not based on the amount of new features, or backward incompatible changes (as in semantically versioned softwares) but by the time passed. (Note that the time passed is correlated to the no. of new features simply because given more time you probably can develop more, but the later is not the direct causation of a major update.)

As others has pointed out, "a new feature that cost money" is a dataset, which requires people to tag resources. While they can develop the module (say Counseling Guide) to be fully functional, the initially small dataset will make the tool handicap. But the tool has no problem, it just needs more data. (A poor analogy might be a fully working browser with no internet connection so you can't pour in "data"/websites to your perfectly functioning browser. Or in our case your internet connection only sees the part of the web of your country, not the whole world wide web.)

I tend to think that COVID-19 has an impact on Logos 9. Had there be no COVID-19, due to their predefined biannual schedule, they will launch at the same time, but since people would have worked more efficiently, there will be more features and/or better tagged datasets such that the tool is less handicapped. As least someone claimed that Logos Unbound is launched on Facebook due to staffing issues. So definitely there's non-zero impact there.

And look at the positive side, no matter how underwhelming the new features are, there are new packages and hence affordable price to buy new resources that wasn't as affordable before this launch. If one really don't want to buy these new features, one could buy the library upgrade alone (all it takes is a subscription to Connect and after that you have option to buy package without the feature set. The subscription is even free to new subscribers.)

Posts 2048
Kenneth Neighoff | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 4:40 AM

PetahChristian:

JoshInRI:
Those of us who helped beta test the new "iteration" of Logos were also underwhelmed except for the updates to Factbook.

Josh, please don't make blanket statements about the beta testers' impression of L9.

Yes

Posts 1045
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 4:48 AM

JoshInRI:
My wife says they need a whole Logos for Dummies menu and functionality revamp.

May be the mobile version is the Logos for Dummies. They have multiple of them too.

JoshInRI:
consider revamping the software from the ground up.

Not a chance. And they already revamped the software from the ground up, it is called the mobile version. It is funny that people from the other side is complaining how the mobile version should be "fully functional" like the desktop version. There's at least 2 analogies:

1. Apple's iPad and Macbook. From one side people can complain Macbook is too complicated, let's give us a Macbook for Dummies. And here we have iPad. On the other side people are complaing iPad should run full macOS, run my desktop softwares...

2. Adobe's original Lightroom (now renamed Lightroom Classic) and the new Lightroom. Lightroom is rebuilt form the ground up, much faster, easier to use for newbies, but the Lightroom Classic is the heavy lifting but slow software that does more than Lightroom. The 2 co-exists, and appealed to different kinds of people, but can work together.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 5:41 AM

Kenneth Neighoff:

PetahChristian:

JoshInRI:
Those of us who helped beta test the new "iteration" of Logos were also underwhelmed except for the updates to Factbook.

Josh, please don't make blanket statements about the beta testers' impression of L9.

Yes

Exactly my response!

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 4200
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 5:53 AM

I may be in the minority on this but I would like to see Logos expand on its media searches as well as make a portion of it geared towards public. I have books where I know the images are but when I do a media search, they don't show.  This is probably unlikely due to the expense but getting images in older surveys, atlases, dictionaries and study bibles tagged so they show in media searches would be wonderful.  

Don't get me wrong... I love logos but it takes time to Learn how to use Logos.  I'd like to see more free training videos as well. 

In regards to the public comment, more interactives and visuals that can be brought up during a teaching session (as well as the old ones getting updated).  

Posts 11336
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 6:18 AM

Bruce Dunning:
Exactly my response!

I rather suspect Josh didn't take a survey. For sure, didn't correctly calculate the confidence interval.

But in Bible-scholar-land, constant use of double-negatives compute out to 'at least 50-50' (which doesn't mean much). However, in the case of 'underwhelming', it's equivalent to 'not overwhelming'. Unexcited as not excited. There's no shared middle (going back to high school venn diagrams).

I'm guessing the betas were not overwhelming. Smiling. Now, as above, for 2020, that might be understandable.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 5017
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 6:22 AM

As I said elsewhere, L8 was the first new release that I never upgraded to, and (excepting Ultimate) I've bought the top available package ever since the first Scholar's bundle back in the 90s (including the first Silver, first Gold, first Portfolio & second, and the first two Collector's editions). Twice I almost talked myself into buying the L8 Collector's, and backed out at the click-to-pay button. The reason was I just didn't feel any excitement or sense of urgency or need. Not to say there is stuff I would like to have, just not enough to tip me over the edge. I feel like the newest Master Collection that got offered for only 2 days is something I would have certainly taken advantage of, and if I had known that discounts of L8 were being offered a day earlier, I might well have gone ahead and finally nabbed Collector's.

I checked out the L9 Collector's and I haven't been so underwhelmed in a long time. Phil said they focused on pastors, and I believe it. 120-odd devotionals!!!! Sleep Tons of counseling dreck. Roll Eyes If someone offered to pay me $100 to read each one, I'm not sure I'd bite. I get the shakes just thinking about it. You know that awful bitter stuff between the two halves of a pecan? That's what I feel like this L9 Collector's mostly is...very little meat, and nearly twice as expensive of the L8 version! One of the reasons is the massively expensive journals bundle included--and it's called "Scholar's". Huh? Ick! When I called to ask about the availability of the L8 bundles, I told the sales guy that the lion's share of stuff that's packed into the journal bundle includes resources I've never even heard of before and the vast majority of "journals" (I think some may just be magazines) are things I've never once seen cited in my Logos library. He proceeded to pitch me on how they (FL) were trying to focus on scholar's with this Collector's edition...in spite of the fact I had just called that whole idea into question. I could almost see the sales flow chart and cue cards he was reading from.

This gets at one of the errors I've noticed and complained about regarding the top bundles that FL offers. They (FL) have a tendency to imagine that scholars and pastors alike are the target customers for Portfolio and Collector's. Uhh, NO. There is next to no overlap. Every single "pastor focused" resource sandwiched into one of these large bundles is an incentive for me to cringe and spend nothing. Pastors, generally speaking, aren't too interested in scholarly resources. I could point to wagon loads of scholarly material, such as the de Gruyter bundles, that shriveled and died on the vine...while practically every single devotional that's ever been published in history has made it into Logos and has been packed sardine-like into the flagship product bundles. My point is (and I've made this request before) that FL needs to create BIBLE FOCUSED packages for Bible-focused customers. Just to be clear, I'm not being particularly snooty with my use of the word "scholarly"...I am just making reference to BIBLE-focused STUDY material...and, just to be clear, devotionals and counseling, and frankly, church history AIN'T IT. In years past, I've had to swallow train cars full of pastor pablum to get a bundle-priced deal on certain study resources I wanted that never went on sale at any other time. Well, that's probably all over. There are still tons of items in my wish list that I would like to see in a Portfolio or Collector's bundle, but time and again...NOPE. A few years back I spent almost a month creating and posting my theoretical Unobtanium Collection (the whole thing running in the thou$and$, I have no doubt). Not all that long after Logos came out with the Ultimate Collection, but again, there is not that much overlap between the two. Ultimate is bogged down with church and preacher stuff and not nearly enough Bible stuff.

So, anyway, I know I won't be getting the Collector's this time around, not even at a discount. Only a significant discount is likely to get me to make a move on anything else L9ish. I'm okay with that. I just got my $1200 and it could have gone to Logos, but it won't. It could have, if what I wanted was in the flagship packages, but...

Posts 5017
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 6:28 AM

Fábio Silva:

Yes and probably Logos 10 will feel underwhelming as well. 

It's not FaithLife's fault, it's just how products work. As a product matures it starts getting harder to have anything that feels like groundbreaking unless there is a big shift in technology or architecture. 

Look at the smartphone market, are there developments? Yes. But they are always incremental QOL type. When there is a huge technological jump we can have something like the first Iphone or AI Assistants but for the year-on-year development everything feels slower
 

I have never, not once, purchased a newer version of Logos because of new features. In fact, the more they add to the software, the less affection I have for it. I want Logos to save me time and offer quality resources for searching, but more and more I get the distinct sense that it's trying to think for people, and not all that surprisingly, people seem to eat that stuff up. It kind of repulses me.

I buy new versions because I hope there will be a new mix of resources that I can pick up at bundle pricing. Although there are still plenty of opportunities for such packages to be cobbled together by FL, with each successive iteration there is less and less that I find interesting or worthwhile being included in the flagship packages. The L9 Collector's is a total snooze-fest.

Posts 11336
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 6:39 AM

David Paul:
Only a significant discount is likely to get me to make a move on anything else L9ish. I'm okay with that. I just got my $1200 and it could have gone to Logos, but it won't. It could have, if what I wanted was in the flagship packages, but...

Well. Maybe you're a tad-bit underwhelmed? I wonder what gets folks so emotional over Logos? It's just software and books. Like if one went to the store, and they didn't impress, you'd not even notice (maybe sigh).  The 2021 Honda Accord looks like the 2015 (thank goodness).

Maybe Logos is integral to folk's lives? Like a toolset you're locked into (Ryobi!). Now, for me, I scanned the full-feature, and saw lots of don't-want. But I found the academic feature that had less don't-want. So, I got that. Then, I started looking at it closely, and noticed they lazy'd out the obvious. Kind of like a new Ryobi tool that didn't integrate. So, I surprised the CS lady at 6 am for a refund. It was peanuts for me, but somehow, it had to go.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 5017
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 6:51 AM

Denise:
Maybe Logos is integral to folk's lives?

I've said here probably half-a-dozen times over the last 12 years that I consider myself married to Logos, for better or worse. And since the shift from Libronix (L3), it's been worser and worser and worser every couple of years. I feel like I've been faithful to Logos (to the tune of ten$ of thou$and$ of dollar$), and she's left me over her shoulder and rarely ever looks back. I remember days of yore when I was a huge cheerleader for Logos. Although I'm bound and can't do without it, I've long felt jilted, disrespected, and ignored. My grumpiness mushroomed when they got rid of Dave, my salesmen. Spitballing, I'd say that cost FL at least $10-20K since that happened. There's a lot of pain in my relationship with Logos, so that's the source of the emotion. 

Posts 1750
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 6:52 AM

JoshInRI:
consider revamping the software from the ground up. 

Ugg. I was actively involved when they did that with Logos 4. As much as I could see the eventual advantages of the whole library search model of Logos 4, I, like many others here, kept our Libronix 3 install going for years until Logos added enough features and datasets to actually accomplish what we were used to.

Of course, since then we have seen work on other rewrites - namely the mobile app and web app. I remember when I was so pleased with their early versions - which were clunky reader only apps. It is amazing to me what all they can do now - even if I use them mostly as mobile readers.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 1215
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 6:53 AM

Denise:
But I found the academic feature that had less don't-want. So, I got that. Then, I started looking at it closely, and noticed they lazy'd out the obvious.

I'm looking at the Academic Sets. Could you please translate or ELI5 this?

Posts 11336
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 7:09 AM

Sean:
I'm looking at the Academic Sets. Could you please translate or ELI5 this?

Keep in mind, my comment was relative to emotions; not logic. These are just my 2 cents (and I keep adding, it's Covid-time for them too ... hard to deliver):

- The commentaries: if you like; I don't trust FL (no offense intended)

- The added RIs: okie dokie. I use the NRSV in multiview since it has the deuteros and a quick OL glance.

- The datasets: I'm not the trusting type as above. I pull the OL's to start, and then the recognized scholars. Journals, journals!

- The Lexham Research lexicons: very interesting. I suspect they could turn out well, with added ???. But then I remembered FL is an A or B outfit (choose one). I'd still have to pull the OLs.

- The mss's. Convenient, though the New Orleans apparatus is better. The 'lazy'd' is no linkage to my Logos mss's. What's the point?

So. Logically, good buy. But emotionally, not on my watch.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 5017
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 7:10 AM

Ken McGuire:
I, like many others here, kept our Libronix 3 install going for years until Logos added enough features and datasets to actually accomplish what we were used to.

I'm glad you finally got the things you needed. I never did--there are at least half-a-dozen MUST HAVES for my study process in L3 that never got ported or remade in LSince. I wish that would change, but I'm pretty sure it never will. So, I'm stuck with L3 until the end it seems.

Posts 1045
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 7:11 AM

Denise:

David Paul:
Only a significant discount is likely to get me to make a move on anything else L9ish. I'm okay with that. I just got my $1200 and it could have gone to Logos, but it won't. It could have, if what I wanted was in the flagship packages, but...

Well. Maybe you're a tad-bit underwhelmed? I wonder what gets folks so emotional over Logos? It's just software and books. Like if one went to the store, and they didn't impress, you'd not even notice (maybe sigh).  The 2021 Honda Accord looks like the 2015 (thank goodness).

Maybe Logos is integral to folk's lives? Like a toolset you're locked into (Ryobi!). Now, for me, I scanned the full-feature, and saw lots of don't-want. But I found the academic feature that had less don't-want. So, I got that. Then, I started looking at it closely, and noticed they lazy'd out the obvious. Kind of like a new Ryobi tool that didn't integrate. So, I surprised the CS lady at 6 am for a refund. It was peanuts for me, but somehow, it had to go.

I certainly asked that to myself quite often lately. What‘s my emotional response to this and why?

To me a large part of it is guilt. It may be different for others but I grew up very poor. And whenever I spent money not wisely I have tremendous amount of guilt. (I’m still poor, but at least now I can afford buying Logos packages.)

If I buy something I don’t need, I felt guilt. If I buy something I need, but don’t use it often, I felt guilt as I wasted money on it but didn’t spend enough time on it.

Now if I buy the full feature set and found that it is not all that useful, I will feel the same thing. May be like buyer remorse. Like buying something I actually don’t need.

And the Logos pricing model is quite incompatible to people like me. It encourages buying unnecessary things (because if I buy a package with all those things I don’t need it is cheaper than buying only those I need.)

Also, the feeling that I paid a little to obtain something worth much more is sort of like greed. It satisfies our want to want more regardless of our need.

Also, in Logos pricing model, it is not transparent on its dynamic pricing. Hearing from another thread that splitting a purchase fifthy something times would amount to huge savings. That gives me the feeling that if I don’t figure out that and buy it in the cheapest way possible, that Is spending money not wisely. Again, Guilt.

And then doubt—do I really need this? theres new resources I want but I have similar resources already. wouldnt the existing, perhaps inferior, resource by enough? Am I greedy to want more but I don’t actually need it?

And then another kind of guilt: am I too miserly towards all these fine people at Faithlife?

And of course returning a product for refund resulted in guilt too.

I tried to rationalize spending on Logos by thinking it like a tithing. But I’m not certain how should I feel about it.

And in this year especially during COVID19, I really want to buy something from them worrying that they might not be doing very well.

Among everything I spent money on, definitely Logos is the most emotional one now that I think about it. (Well in case of medical bill I just have pure anger towards US health care so not that complicated!) in the beginning of purchasing Logos, it was pure joy I guess, and subsequently as I keep upgrading, i have increasing level of Mixed feeling like above.

I hope  some of you can share how you view and feel towards Logos purchases. 

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