Passage Guide, Cited By and Factbook

Page 1 of 2 (34 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 33 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 2107
Mark | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Oct 30 2020 6:03 AM

Can someone help me to understand the difference between Passage Guide, Cited By and Factbook?

Do they produce different results?  On another thread, it was suggested to link Carta to Cited By.  Would the results be different if it was linked to Passage guide? 

If Passage Guide is customizable (if all the guides are customizable), what is the difference between them? Is it not possible to have the exegetical guide as part of the passage guide for example?

Posts 2498
Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 6:23 AM

Hi Mark,

I will do my best to try and differential how I use each of these tools:

The PG is a guide that in it's default set up is intended to look up milestones in commentaries and then people, places and things that pertain to the verse or pericope being studied. It has been so long since I have looked at what a default guide looks like I do not remember it all. It is not by default set up to search collections or tagged resources. It is customizable.

Factbook is expanding, but I see it as more topical based. Type in a name, place  or theological topic. Now you can included lemmas and all sorts of other stuff, but it is still going to look in your topical resources. It is not customizable. 

Cited By tool is used to lookup in collections and tagged resource groups where a verse is mentioned in those resources. Very useful for opening up the monographs in your library to you study by verse or pericope. You determine which collections are included and how the findings are displayed.

You can add collections to the PG and it will function the same as a collection in the Cited By tool. the way I use this is to have collections of monographs that i want to see in the PG included such as background, exegesis and maps and handbooks. The Cited By tool has many more collections that I would follow up on usually last in my study: Author Collections, Prayer, Christian Living etc.

I would be glad to show you more of my layout and workflow if you are interested, but hopefully this explains a bit more about these great tools.

Posts 2498
Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 6:29 AM

Here is a comparison of these tools as I have them set up in case it helps.

Posts 408
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 7:02 AM

Great explanation, John!

I would say it a little differently.

A Passage Guide is your own customized set of information; it's not just commentaries, but virtually any category you can imagine.

I believe that NO ONE should use the default guides; they are far too complex, and in Logos, complex means sloooow.

I have several custom guides for the sermon prep process: a Linguistic Guide for language work; a Voices Guide for Commentaries; a Sermon Guide for illustrations and music I might want on Sunday. 

The Factbook sorts through your library on a topic and brings back a report on that topic. 

The Cited By tool is a sidebar tool (like the Information tool) that only makes sense if you have it linked to your Bible. It will present specific information about the verse you are looking at in that particular moment of time. I use it primary for Atlas information. It doesn't alway have something meaningful to say, but when it does, it's often from a resource I don't typically use.

Posts 2498
Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 7:13 AM

I completely agree on customizing the guides.

Posts 2107
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 7:14 AM

Thanks John and Greg.  I guess what I am wondering is this:  if you customize PG, is there is a need for Cited By?  Can you do in PG everything that is done in Cited By?  And then the same as the new factbook.  Or is it possible that the new factbook will eventually allow everything that PG does?  In terms of other guides (Topical Guide, Exegetical Guide, Theology Guide...) cannot they also be presented in the PG?

Is the reason for the various guides such that having one long guide that does everything can potentially slow down the searches?  I am guessing this is so.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 7:16 AM

Safari and the forum are acting up today, so can't quote.

But John and Gregory's are good summaries. I don't use the tools, since (a) I have a large layout of my frequent resources, and (b) I've no patience for useless results (a large library happily delivers).

So, as Gregory mentions, I use CitedBy's for areas that I cringe trying to even keep track of ... the talmud, the Fathers, NT apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, Strack&B, etc. Plus I like traditional maps/charts books, so I have one for that.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2498
Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 7:23 AM

Mark:

Thanks John and Greg.  I guess what I am wondering is this:  if you customize PG, is there is a need for Cited By?  Can you do in PG everything that is done in Cited By?  And then the same as the new factbook.  Or is it possible that the new factbook will eventually allow everything that PG does?  In terms of other guides (Topical Guide, Exegetical Guide, Theology Guide...) cannot they also be presented in the PG?

Is the reason for the various guides such that having one long guide that does everything can potentially slow down the searches?  I am guessing this is so.

You can include all your collections in the PG, but it would be very cluttered. It is easy to get too much information at one time, like drinking from a fire hose, and they just get lost. I think it depends on how you study and how you avoid being overwhelmed with information while you work. I am very targeted and intentional so using both tools works for me.

I do not know about the Factbook, only where it is today and it does not replace PG or Cited By.

You can combine certain features of each in a custom guide. The topical guide is not verse driven so those sections will not work in a guide such as the PG. I have combined the best sections of the PG and EG together.

Logos provides endless options and each user should try different things to see how best they work for them.

Regarding one long guide... alway, alway close your guides with all sections collapsed and it will not slow things down... ALWAYS.. lol.

Posts 2107
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 7:28 AM

Thanks again all.  Very helpful to me.

Posts 3027
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 8:01 AM

Gregory Lawhorn:
The Cited By tool is a sidebar tool (like the Information tool) that only makes sense if you have it linked to your Bible. It will present specific information about the verse you are looking at in that particular moment of time. I use it primary for Atlas information.

I think you are badly underusing the CB tool. It does a whole lot more than that if you play with it a bit.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2461
LogosEmployee

Mark:
Or is it possible that the new factbook will eventually allow everything that PG does?

That is indeed one of the long term goals.

One other thing that distinguishes Factbook from something like the Cited By tool (or Information tool) is that Factbook almost exclusively shows curated information. For example, rather than showing all passages that might pertain to a topic, only a curated list of the ones that have particular relevance are shown.

This generally means that the content that shows up tends to be higher quality, but may miss some things specific to your particular interest. This makes it a great starting point for exploration.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 8:25 AM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

One other thing that distinguishes Factbook from something like the Cited By tool (or Information tool) is that Factbook almost exclusively shows curated information. For example, rather than showing all passages that might pertain to a topic, only a curated list of the ones that have particular relevance are shown.

This generally means that the content that shows up tends to be higher quality, but may miss some things specific to your particular interest. This makes it a great starting point for exploration.

Smiling. But exactly why I avoid the tools. Not interested in low-level curation. Books, yes.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 408
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 8:34 AM

Doc B:

I think you are badly underusing the CB tool. It does a whole lot more than that if you play with it a bit.

I have no doubt that you are right. If my church ever decides to give me a six month sabbatical, I'll do nothing but focus on getting my Logos Black Belt. There's just so much to the software that I use what I use and don't investigate very much beyond that. I'll try to put a little more time into it. 

Posts 408
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 8:43 AM

Mark:

Thanks John and Greg.  I guess what I am wondering is this:  if you customize PG, is there is a need for Cited By?  Can you do in PG everything that is done in Cited By?  And then the same as the new factbook.  Or is it possible that the new factbook will eventually allow everything that PG does?  In terms of other guides (Topical Guide, Exegetical Guide, Theology Guide...) cannot they also be presented in the PG?

Is the reason for the various guides such that having one long guide that does everything can potentially slow down the searches?  I am guessing this is so.

Well, my daddy taught me to use tools, and he taught me that anything is a hammer if you can't actually find your hammer. I saw him hammer with socket wrenches, crescent wrenches, screwdriver handles, chisels, pry bars – the list covers virtually everything in his Craftsman over/under tool chest, none of which he could use; my daddy couldn't fix a loose screw. (The hammer was usually out in the yard, covered in rust.) But he had the big tool chest, boy; that's what matters!

But having the right tool makes the job all that much easier. So it's really up to you. Try the tools, and see if YOU find them useful. That's why I customize my guides; I want them lean and efficient. There's no wrong way to use Logos, and efficiency is a very personal thing. What works for me may not work for you. 

Posts 922
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 10:05 AM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Mark:
Or is it possible that the new factbook will eventually allow everything that PG does?

That is indeed one of the long term goals.

One other thing that distinguishes Factbook from something like the Cited By tool (or Information tool) is that Factbook almost exclusively shows curated information. For example, rather than showing all passages that might pertain to a topic, only a curated list of the ones that have particular relevance are shown.

This generally means that the content that shows up tends to be higher quality, but may miss some things specific to your particular interest. This makes it a great starting point for exploration.

My $0.02, very roughly and glossing over a lot of important details:

  • Logos Search = Google
  • Logos Factbook = Wikipedia (but mostly data, not words)

Cited By uses very local information embedded in resources. When it has the information you want, it's a very powerful tool. It's not likely to be as strong at broad, conceptual information, however. 

Posts 9406
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 10:16 AM

Gregory Lawhorn:
It will present specific information about the verse you are looking at in that particular moment of time.

This is Cited By's strength. It can save time in performing separate searches for information by simply showing whether you have information in a selection of resources that you might be interested in. I try to keep just a few collections showing.

(There used to be a time when you could drag a specific Cited By arrangement to Favorites and if you clicked on that entry it would open the Cited By tool preloaded with those collection. You could save whatever arrangements you wanted this way. Sadly, we lost that back in L7 I believe. Now you have to manually set up or reset up the tool each time you want something different. It would be a lot more useful if there was a way to save specific implementations.)

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 177
cshover8669 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 12:28 PM

Mark Smith:

Gregory Lawhorn:
It will present specific information about the verse you are looking at in that particular moment of time.

This is Cited By's strength. It can save time in performing separate searches for information by simply showing whether you have information in a selection of resources that you might be interested in. I try to keep just a few collections showing.

(There used to be a time when you could drag a specific Cited By arrangement to Favorites and if you clicked on that entry it would open the Cited By tool preloaded with those collection. You could save whatever arrangements you wanted this way. Sadly, we lost that back in L7 I believe. Now you have to manually set up or reset up the tool each time you want something different. It would be a lot more useful if there was a way to save specific implementations.)

Creating a layout and updating active, doesn't save it? Curious?  Carla

Posts 9406
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 1:23 PM

cshover8669:
Creating a layout and updating active, doesn't save it? Curious?

Yes it will save the settings in a layout.

The way I used it before I could have a number of different simple arrangements of Cited By saved in Favorites so that without changing the layout JUST to get to another Cited By tool arrangement, I could click on the link and get the tool to open configured as I wanted. There isn't a way to do that now. (I doubt I would have resorted, or will resort to changing layouts JUST to change the Cited By tool setting, BTW.)

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 5505
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 30 2020 2:52 PM

Mark:
Can someone help me to understand the difference between Passage Guide, Cited By and Factbook?

Lots of great comments already that have focussed on function of these various tools but I'll add my thoughts on usage as I haven't seen any comments in regards to this lines of thinking about these tools. 

And for me the keyword is that old chestnut Context - what is my context for my usage of Logos when I'm deciding upon which tool to use.

If I am specifically focussed on

  • studying a passage then I'm going to use Passage Guide. 
  • studying a topic then I'm going to use Factbook.
  • studying a book of the bible then I'm going to use Factbook entry on that book for an overview as my starting point.
  • reading my bible then my focus is on the text and I only want occassional assistance from a study bible, bible guide commentary or other resources in my library so I use a layout as per below where both the bible explorer and cited by tool are linked to my bible and commentary, take up limited screen space, but provide lots of great information that gives me immediate context of where in the biblical story what i am reading fits etc, links to factbook entries on key people, places and things and in cited by immediate search access to curated resource collections that I might want to look to for further information.

Posts 3027
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 1 2020 10:23 AM

cshover8669:
Creating a layout and updating active, doesn't save it?

The problem with this is, having a lot of items in the favorites tool doesn't affect the speed of Logos. But (I'm told) having a lot of layouts slows Logos down (just like having a lot of collections, etc.).

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Page 1 of 2 (34 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS