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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 6 2020 8:15 PM

Nick Stapleton:
I'm surprised that more of this information wasn't determined 6 months ago.

What information? 

For clarification: As per Phil, moving to a "native" Apple Silicon app will require third party software to be updated first before FL can do so. 

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Posts 17
Matthew Speakes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 6 2020 8:46 PM

JT (alabama24):

Nick Stapleton:
I'm surprised that more of this information wasn't determined 6 months ago.

What information? 

For clarification: As per Phil, moving to a "native" Apple Silicon app will require third party software to be updated first before FL can do so. 

This is true.  FL decided not develop Logos for Mac using Xcode many years ago.  This mean FL is at the mercy of third party development tools to be updated before they can even begin addressing issues such as what Mac M1 users are currently experiencing with Logos.  I understand why FL made this choice, and I understand there are trade-offs either way.  Logos benefits by sharing code between development teams and keeping perfect parity on desktop platforms.  Personally I would prefer FL to develop in Xcode for their Mac users, but I don't run the place.  Logos is an amazing tool - I'm constantly blown away by it.  So while I'm upset with the development timeline, where else am I going to go?  

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 6 2020 9:21 PM

Yes

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Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2020 1:49 PM

I finally pulled the trigger - after thinking I'd wait - and upgraded from my i3 MacBook Air to an M1 Air.  It arrived today, and I have been putting it through its paces with Verbum and other apps/software.  Overall, this M1 lives up to the hype.  With Verbum, everything is faster than my Intel Air except for scrolling the homepage.  The homepage stutters and delays momentarily as I scroll.  Once I stop scrolling, there's a brief pause before the mostly blank screen gets populated.  My M1 Air has 16GB of unified memory; I don't know if that has any effect on the speed issues some of you have run into compared to having 8 GB.  

And the silence!  No fan comes on!  Wonderful!  I can already tell that battery life is better, even on the first day I'm using it.  I'm pleased so far with my M1 Air.

We all know that Rosetta 2 won't be around forever.  The first Rosetta latest about two or three years, I believe.  We'll need a native M1 app eventually.  But, other than the homepage scrolling, I see solid performance improvements thus far.  The SSD is quite fast, which should help with indexing.  

Some have asked about the possibility of using the iPadOS Logos/Verbum app on an M1 Mac.  I'd say not yet.  The ability to run iPhone/iPad apps on the M1 Mac seems more like a beta feature to me now.  Maybe after the next Big Sur update it might make sense.  If I were FL, I wouldn't waste energy on this option just yet.  

Posts 42
Mike Prewitt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 11 2020 9:43 AM

I finally received my new 13" MacBook Pro with Apple M1, 16-GB, and 1-TB SSD. I installed Logos 9.1 on to macOS Big Sur 11.0.1.

Unlike my other Macs, this 2020 model supports WiFi 6, and since I recently upgraded my home to WiFi 6 (Linksys Velop AX5300), I was hoping for the initial download of the 38.6-GB of resources to run faster. After all, Speedtest shows the M1 MacBook Pro gives me a download speed of 525-Mbps over WiFi 6. However, I didn't notice any appreciable speed up in the download.

Indexing of the 9,751 resources and 159 datasets took 1 hour and 42 minutes. The exterior of the MacBook Pro did get pretty warm, and the fan finally kicked on at 99%.

I'm pretty amazed at the responsiveness and speed of the Apple M1. I've used it with my other apps, but I'm just now going to play around with Logos.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 11 2020 10:50 AM

Mike Prewitt:
I was hoping for the initial download of the 38.6-GB of resources to run faster.

With a library that size, the "scan" command would be better. 

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Posts 42
Mike Prewitt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 11 2020 11:08 AM

I wanted to compare the time it takes to index when new resources are added. So I bought 3 new resources and ran a comparison with three devices. They are all running Logos 9.1 on macOS Big Sur 11.0.1

2019 27-inch iMac with Retina 5K display, 3.6GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor, 16GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory, Radeon Pro 580X with 8GB of GDDR5 memory, 1TB SSD storage

4 minutes 9 seconds (04:09) fan came on at 99%

2019 15-inch MacBook Pro, 2.3GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor, 16GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory, Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB of GDDR5 memory, 1TB SSD storage

5 minutes 38 seconds (05:38) fan came on at 98%

2020 13-inch MacBook Pro, Apple M1 chip with 8-core CPU and 8-core GP and 16-core Neural Engine, 16GB unified memory, 1TB SSD storage

5 minutes 0 seconds (05:00) fan did not come on

The M1 MacBook, running the Intel code of Logos under Rosetta 2 emulation, managed to beat out the MacBook with the 2.3-GHz Intel i9. However, it ran slower than the iMac with the 3.6-GHz Intel i9.

Posts 4
Matthew J. Sine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2020 6:41 AM

After 3 weeks of usage, I concur. It is actually faster than my former 2019 i9 Macbook on both an M1 Air and M1 Mini. However, Logos is notoriously slow with loading saved layouts as well as certain searches, so that issue remains.

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Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2020 9:41 AM

I'm on the Big Sur 11.1 beta.  Scrolling the homepage and working with such features as Psalms Explorer is much smoother now.  I mention this because some people found the homepage unusable on the M1 Mac.  Looks like Apple is addressing some of these issues on their end, even if not deliberately for us!

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Mike Prewitt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2020 9:52 AM

Mark Nolette:

I'm on the Big Sur 11.1 beta.  Scrolling the homepage and working with such features as Psalms Explorer is much smoother now.  I mention this because some people found the homepage unusable on the M1 Mac.  Looks like Apple is addressing some of these issues on their end, even if not deliberately for us!

Yep, macOS Big Sur 11.1 was released yesterday, and Mark is right. Scrolling the Home page is much smoother.

Posts 1
Carl Toney | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 10:03 PM

Logos on the new M1 works just fine. It's a tad slower to load than the intel i5. Once things are running, they are fine. Here's my video of side by side comparisons of them loading. https://youtu.be/1e052zaQoQA

Posts 1
Donald Brown | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2021 7:08 PM

Ken,

I found this post looking for information about other's experiences with Logos and the M1. Have you run into problems running it with Rosetta 2?

-Don

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2021 7:13 PM

Donald Brown:
Have you run into problems running it with Rosetta 2?

I am unaware of any major issues. I have it installed, but my main usage is when classes are in session. 

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Posts 3
Phil Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 5:07 PM

Since I run a multitude of Logos panels across 6 monitors on a MacBook Pro 16, the desktop is absolutely the priority. I could never accomplish the depth and speed of my exegetical work running simply on an iPad. I hope Logos never sacrifices updating Logos desktop compatibility for the sake of a central focus on iPad. A tiny iPad screen would never compare to 30 desktop screens across 6 monitors on a Mac. That would be a severe downgrade, one that I would find unworkable. So please update for compatibility to M1 as soon as possible. Thanks so much!

Posts 24
James Hogg | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 10:47 AM

breaking news

Posts 8
Joshua | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2021 7:49 AM

I wonder what are the implications of Logos coming to Apple Silicon for Surface Pro X users? Not wanting to hijack the thread, but would appreciate if anyone could give some helpful analysis.

Since both are ARM devices, I assume there's some kind of direct/indirect benefits, or is it more of a 'entirely up to Microsoft' situation? Considering the SQ chips are not super capable, but considering the fact that it's now able to run Adobe Premier Pro and Rush via emulation (seen on Youtube), I'm gonna assume it will get better as Microsoft further polishes the emulation, and perhaps Pro X user can somehow benefit from Logos coming towards Apple Silicon to enhance the experience?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2021 9:52 AM

Joshua:
I wonder what are the implications of Logos coming to Apple Silicon for Surface Pro X users?

There aren't any. ALL of Macs will be migrating to Apple Silicon, so FL doesn't have a choice except to either support it or drop Mac altogether (which they have said they don't plan to do). The Surface Pro doesn't run on Apple Silicon, and there aren't any (legal) emulators. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2021 1:48 PM

Joshua:
... perhaps Pro X user can somehow benefit from Logos coming towards Apple Silicon to enhance the experience?

Faithlife feedback => Native Support for Apple Silicon Processors currently has 31 votes and status of Planned. If/when Faihthlife supports universal application bundle (both Intel & ARM) for macOS, then ARM support for Pro X may become a possibility (depends on WPF code modifications needed for Microsoft ARM plus customer usage). Business consideration for Pro X is percentage of Faithlife customers purchasing/using Pro X (personally doubt less than 1% customer base usage of Microsoft ARM being wise for development/support costs).

Am looking forward to faster Apple Silicon models this year plus hoping for new Mac models (laptop & iMac) having touch screen (would enable seamless iOS & iPad app usage on Apple Silicon Mac plus provide incentive for Faithlife to improve touch screen interaction).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 1 2021 1:54 PM

I just saw that Apple itself is contributing patches to a lot of open source development platforms, including Mono. They're clearly invested in making Apple Silicon a success, and I'm sure they want to see quick adoption of native support.

My guess is that we'll see M1 support in Mono considerably sooner than Phil's timeline suggests.

I don't blame him for being conservative on his timelines here on the forum though! It's not something Logos has much control over.

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