Open letter re:Logos maintenance support aka bug supression

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This post has 23 Replies | 1 Follower

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 29 2020 10:59 PM

Several years ago, Logos was so bug ridden that it was frustrating to use. Many forum regulars complained, Logos heard the complaints, and the quality of Logos development improved dramatically along with the documentation. I don't know about others, but I am beginning to see hints of the old frustration in inaccurate information in the Help file, long standing bugs that elicit comments like "I'll add this to the list of threads in the case" or "we have a case; the work around is" ...,, the frequency with which I encounter small but new to me errors, even the ratio of bug reports to the requests for assistance in the forums.

I understand that Faithlife has many products to support with a small staff. And I understand that several major undertakings -- merger with WordSearch, reworking of Factbook, new charting package, the sermon manager/builder project, darkmode -- have to be straining the staff. However, I also know that losing control of the documentation and the bugs can increase overhead and decrease reputation.

Can we please have some development cycles that place some emphasis on working through the backlog of small errors, that tackle enough of them for we the users to genuinely see progress rather than fingers in the dyke?

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19140
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 29 2020 11:40 PM

Yes, please!

The other thing I hear a lot is "that bug isn't in the new features we've written for version X, so we won't be addressing it. We need to focus on our new code." Yeah, well, if you're constantly writing new code and never getting it up to good quality, then it will become the old code with bugs in it that will never be addressed because you'll then be working on the next new code.

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 12:28 PM

Yes, 1000x yes. Fix bugs first or you're building your new features on stuff that's already broken.

-Donnie

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 12:45 PM

We're devoting a good portion of our resources right now to bug fixes, not just new ones but ones that have been around for a while and are getting fresh attention due to Logos 9.

We'll continue to keep a steady stream of bug fixes prioritized as we move into next year to ensure that we're keeping the quality of life good while we advance various Logos 9 features based on your feedback.

Please keep reporting things you're seeing, new and old alike, and we'll continue to get as many as we can prioritized.

If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 1:33 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

We're devoting a good portion of our resources right now to bug fixes, not just new ones but ones that have been around for a while and are getting fresh attention due to Logos 9.

We'll continue to keep a steady stream of bug fixes prioritized as we move into next year to ensure that we're keeping the quality of life good while we advance various Logos 9 features based on your feedback.

Excellent! Big Smile

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Please keep reporting things you're seeing, new and old alike, and we'll continue to get as many as we can prioritized.

Will do. Yes

Is it safe to assume that stuff on feedback.faithlife.com that has received no (public) response from FL does not need to be re-reported? (E.g., https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-com-website/posts/fix-language-tagging-for-slavonic-and-russian-on-logos-com & https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-mobile-app/posts/fix-the-verse-selector-for-sirach-ecclesiasticus)

“I want you to know how the people should behave in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” - 1 Timothy 3:15 (EOB:NT).

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 3:02 PM

Phil while you are at it, can you look at Bible links from Pbb files. On the first click of a Bible verse in a Pbb when opening a layout it does not go to the correct book and chapter in the Bible. You have to click te Bible link twice to get it to work.

Reported this several times and it has not been fixed as yet.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 3:29 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're devoting a good portion of our resources right now to bug fixes, not just new ones but ones that have been around for a while and are getting fresh attention due to Logos 9.

Thanks Phil. That is exactly what I needed to hear. I'll watch (and test) the beta's carefully to see the bugs ticked off.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19140
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 3:35 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're devoting a good portion of our resources right now to bug fixes, not just new ones but ones that have been around for a while and are getting fresh attention due to Logos 9.

We'll continue to keep a steady stream of bug fixes prioritized as we move into next year to ensure that we're keeping the quality of life good while we advance various Logos 9 features based on your feedback.

Thank you!

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Please keep reporting things you're seeing, new and old alike, and we'll continue to get as many as we can prioritized.

If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.

Will do.

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LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 4:42 PM

SineNomine:

You don't need to report it again, but you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.

Posts 2089
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 5:04 PM

Lynden Williams:

Phil while you are at it, can you look at Bible links from Pbb files. On the first click of a Bible verse in a Pbb when opening a layout it does not go to the correct book and chapter in the Bible. You have to click te Bible link twice to get it to work.

Reported this several times and it has not been fixed as yet.

Thanks. Checking.

Posts 2692
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2020 12:23 AM

Wonderful news. I get the keenest sense that this quality upgrade is really the best unannounced feature of L9 because it mostly seems rock steady. Thank you FL!

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2020 3:52 PM

Thanks Phil, did you see this Cosmetic Bug: Visual Filter Padding - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2020 6:31 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
You don't need to report it again, but you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.

That works. Yes

I'm still building my trust in Faithlife that items added to the new Feedback site, especially the Logos.com and Mobile boards, get seen by relevant people whether or not they get a public response.

“I want you to know how the people should behave in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” - 1 Timothy 3:15 (EOB:NT).

Posts 1984
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2020 11:43 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized...

Phil, see: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/196631.aspx

Thank you,

Donnie

Posts 4849
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2020 1:47 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
you can bring it to my attention if you feel like it's an important issue that we're not prioritizing like we should.

I do feel it's an important issue, but for lack of communication from Faithlife, I straight up don't know what level of prioritization this has: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/195544.aspx (i.e., fixing duplicates and other errors in Factbook since the release of L/V9).

“I want you to know how the people should behave in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” - 1 Timothy 3:15 (EOB:NT).

Posts 176
Pater Noster | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 4:22 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.

Phil, is there any way you could look into this bug report? It has been around for years. I posted just some of the prior reports to it. I also included an mp4 video that can be downloaded showing it, it seems very reproducible. Many of us are hopeful it could be an easy fix. You can imagine, if someone is working with their personal books, to frequently have to exit Logos or Verbum and restart every time they need to do another recompile is very aggravating. It's also aggravating that there has been no comment from FL personnel at all; I am pretty sure that goes the same on the other threads I posted where the bug was reported over the YEARS.

Is there any way you can help with this Phil? Thanks!

Posts 176
Pater Noster | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2020 4:18 AM

<Sigh>. I guess I have to lower my expectations on this bug being fixed. I was hoping for at least an acknowledgment given Phil's heartfelt communication on the need to acknowledge and focus on bugs. Speaking as one of the nameless user rabble, it's really not worth it to post bugs, most don't ever get acknowledged, nor are expectations set on whether they will ever be fixed. I guess that's why it's just less frustrating to stop using functions that don't work right - makes you wonder if FL people even use a lot of what this software intends to offer.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2020 4:46 AM

Pater Noster:
makes you wonder if FL people even use a lot of what this software intends to offer.

Jokingly, I always surmised, the Logos user (there's at least one) at Bellingham didn't get too deep into Bible study. But, it's more likely, like other larger companies, they buffer the coder-group .... else nothing would get done.

I don't bother with Logos bugs too much:

1. It's their work-product, not mine. I say, go for it (top-quality bug production).

2. If they wanted bug-suppression, they'd make it straight-forward for reporting, and then feedback on status (some bugs are dangerous to fix, without more bugs).

3. Besides, counting bug-years demonstrates software lovability!

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 19140
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2020 8:13 AM

Pater Noster:
<Sigh>. I guess I have to lower my expectations on this bug being fixed. I was hoping for at least an acknowledgment given Phil's heartfelt communication on the need to acknowledge and focus on bugs.

Phil did say to email him about them, and posted his email address. He didn't promise to come back and check this thread.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized, feel free to flag it by emailing me (phil@faithlife.com) so I can review it with the team.

Posts 2089
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2020 9:55 AM

Donnie Hale:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
If there's something you think is being overlooked or underprioritized...

Phil, see: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/196631.aspx

Thank you,

Donnie

This is being fixed. I think it'll ship with 9.2.

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