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Posts 14
Dr. Chas Rowland | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Dec 21 2020 8:08 AM

HELP! 

Out of nowhere, Logos stopped working which has practically sent me in to panic/crisis mode since I use Logos about half of my day every day. 

What happened: I called to buy logos 9 and asked if it would run on my computer and the sales agent assured me if I was running logos 8, then I would have no problems running logos 9. Happily, after the upgrade everything went smoothly. I have been using logos 9 without incident since it came out. Suddnely, out of nowhere, logos 9 stopped working and I got an error message that I needed to upgrade my Mac OS. The problem: my iMac is too old to upgrade my Mac OS. Despite the fact that my computer has been running without incident, suddenly it stopped. I called logos customer service this morning to problem solve and get it working. I spoke with a customer service agent named Richard. I explained to Richard what the problem was and he offered to, "send a link to buy a decent computer that will run logos." I asked to speak to Richard's supervisor or another agent and Richard refused to transfer me telling me no one else was available. 

I was upset that Richard's only solution was for me to buy "a decent computer that will run logos" because aside from feeling like Richard was offering horrible customer service, I was assured weeks ago by the sales agent when I upgraded to logos 9 that I would have no issues with logos 9. 

I got off the phone with Richard completley unsatisfied and immediatey called logos customer service back to talk to someone other than Richard. I talked to Fernando this time who was quite helpful. He pointed me in the direction of the logos web app as a temporary work around so I could access logos and my library on my computer. Obviously this is not ideal but I appreciate Fernando's help is finding at least a temporary soliution.

So bottom line, is there no other solution than Richard's advice to "buy a decent computer that will run logos" or otherwise just be stuck with the web app? It feels like there should be some other solution to get me up and running with logos 9 on my computer considering my computer works fantastic and has no performance issues at all with any other application I have. It is frustrating to spend thousands of dollars on a software and suddenly not be able to use it without notice or warning.

Posts 973
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 8:52 AM

Dr. Chas Rowland:
I explained to Richard what the problem was and he offered to, "send a link to buy a decent computer that will run logos."

Did Richard also offer to "send a check to help you pay for a decent computer that will run logos"? Wow, I'm sorry you had such a poor customer service experience.

I'm not helpful when it comes to Mac OS, but those who are would probably ask what your current OS version is and might want to see a screenshot of the error message you received.

At the end of the day, if there is a compatibility issue that can't be overcome, I would demand a refund even if it's outside the 30-day window and see if you can roll-back to Logos 8, since you would have been given false information by sales/customer service that influenced your decision to purchase.

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Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 8:56 AM

Hi Chas 

I am really sorry if you have been misled. It is one of the problems with Macs, they just keep working even when the insides get a bit dated.

You don't say what is the latest OS your machine will run but the support pages say that for Logos 9 you need...

Even if you cannot run 10.14 then Customer Support should be able to offer you a download (presumably Logos 8) that will run on your machine. I guess that will require a lot of downloading and indexing but it should get you up and running again.

While everything else runs without problems on your existing machine more and more that will not be the case and you might consider keeping an eye on developments and finance options for a new machine.

It is a bit puzzling, to me, as to why Logos 9 would run for a while and then stop.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 14
Dr. Chas Rowland | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 9:12 AM

Yes. very strange. logos 9 has worked perfectly for weeks. Then all of a sudden, this weekend it didn’t. The second customer service rep said he didn’t know if logos 8 would even work. And he said no refund was available because it was outside the 30 days, despite my insistence otherwise.

Posts 14
Dr. Chas Rowland | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 9:13 AM

I insisted on a refund and he said it was outside the refund window so a refund was not an option. He suggested ”sell your library.” 

Posts 5153
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 9:27 AM

Dr. Chas Rowland:

I insisted on a refund and he said it was outside the refund window so a refund was not an option. He suggested ”sell your library.” 

I wouldn't do that.

For one thing your 'Library' which you presumably purchased because you need the resources therein will be useful in whatever installation you are running.

What you wanted to update alongside the library was the underlying engine.

What you need is to be able to backpedal to an engine that will run on your machine.

What you should demand is a refund for the 'features' that will not run on the older machine.

Try an email addressed to Bob@logos.com I think he has some influence on the staff.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 29030
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 9:41 AM

Dr. Chas Rowland:
HELP! 

We will be glad to try. Your experience with customer "service" was unacceptable. Tongue Tied

Dr. Chas Rowland:
Suddnely, out of nowhere, logos 9 stopped working and I got an error message that I needed to upgrade my Mac OS. The problem: my iMac is too old to upgrade my Mac OS.

This is confusing, because I am unaware of any changes to the requirements for L9. For that matter, if there were changes to the requirement of L9, then you should be able to install L8... 

In order to help you, we will need more information. 

  1. What specific version of the app are you running? If the app wont open at all, you can right click on the app icon in a finder window. 
  2. What specific version of macOS are you running? 
  3. What specific computer (with specs) are you using? 
  4. What kind of hard drive do you have and how much free space is available? 

The answer to those questions might be informative. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 14
Dr. Chas Rowland | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 10:23 AM

Thanks for helping

1. i am running logos 9.1.0.18 - i originally had an previous version of logos 9 but i was told to try and uninstall and reinstall so this should be a very current version. 

2. I am running Mac OS 10.12.6 (I am not able to update past this version because of the age of my computer

3. My computer is a 2011iMac 21.5 inch; 2.5GHz intel core i5; 32GB RAM; 1333 MHz DDR3

4.  500GB Storage with 50 GB available 

Posts 29030
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2020 6:42 PM

Dr. Chas Rowland:
I am running Mac OS 10.12.6 (I am not able to update past this version because of the age of my computer

It is my understanding that L9 has never been officially compatible with macOS 10.12... 

If you were clear about your computer specs, you should never have been sold L9 (without being made aware of the limitations). There may still be reasons for persons in your situation to make the purchase (to gain new resources), but the expectation should have been made clear that your computer was considered in maintenance mode at the time and that support was ending by the end of this year. 

At this point, I would try to see if you can download and install the L8 engine. I would expect that you should be able to run L8, with two provisions: 

  1. You may have to go back in time (so to speak) to an earlier version of L8 from the current version HERE. I am unsure if the newest version of L8 is still in maintenance mode for your computer or not. If 8.17 SR-2 isn't appropriate, hopefully FL or someone else will be able to hook you up with an earlier version. 
  2. If you did indeed install L9 (which should not have been possible... if you really did do so, then FL was negligent to even allow the app to install in the first place), you may need to perform a full reinstall. Some of the data files may have been converted and incompatible with the ones updated for L9

In all seriousness though, everyone has different ideas about how long a computer should last. When I was a Batchelor, my understanding was that people got a new computer every year whether they needed it or not. When I got married, my wife helped me understand that I didn't need a new computer every year, and every "few" years might be ok. Once I had kids, I found out that even "every few years" might not be realistic. Your computer is nearing its end of life. It would be good to start making arrangements to get a new one. I would encourage you to get a new one with Apple Silicon (M1) chip. The Mac mini may be a good option for you. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 290
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 22 2020 2:04 AM

Dr. Chas Rowland:

2. I am running Mac OS 10.12.6 (I am not able to update past this version because of the age of my computer

One possible solution: I have a friend who installs newer versions of macOS on older Macs and they work fine. You can do a google search for "how to install macOS on an unsupported Mac" to get more information on how to do it. It looks like your 2011 iMac has decent specs. However, you don't state what type of hard drive you have, and it is my opinion, and also that of many others, that no one should run Logos on anything other than an SSD drive. I had an older iMac that I was able to install an SSD drive on and it wasn't very expensive. It also extended the useful life of the Mac and we are still using it at our church.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 22 2020 9:43 PM

Dr. Chas Rowland:
The problem: my iMac is too old to upgrade my Mac OS. Despite the fact that my computer has been running without incident, suddenly it stopped.

Humanly would like to look at diagnostic log files, which may provide insight into sudden stop. Logos Wiki => Diagnostic Logging

Dr. Chas Rowland:

3. My computer is a 2011iMac 21.5 inch; 2.5GHz intel core i5; 32GB RAM; 1333 MHz DDR3

4.  500GB Storage with 50 GB available 

The I Fix It website has 2011 iMac Repair Guides => https://www.ifixit.com/Device/iMac_Intel_21.5%22_EMC_2428 (suction cup option is inexpensive toilet plunger cups, personally used a set of new blue ones on an older iMac to pull glass away from magnets)

If want to upgrade 2011 iMac, suggest replacing 500 GB hard drive with 1 TB SSD. Amazon has a Western Digital 1 TB Blue Internal SSD for $ 89.99 => https://www.amazon.com/Blue-NAND-1TB-SSD-WDS100T2B0A/dp/B073SBQMCX (Write speed is noticeably faster than less expensive $ 77.99 WD Green 1 TB SSD). When 2011 iMac is replaced, 1 TB SSD could become a Time Machine backup drive for newer Mac.

FYI: Apple offers refurbished Mac models => https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac that includes many Intel models, displaced by Apple Silicon M1 models. Noted rumor of 16" MacBook Pro in first quarter 2021 with noticeably faster Apple Silicon SOC (System On a Chip), which includes Memory and SSD being on the chip.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 18990
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2020 10:32 PM

Dr. Chas Rowland:

2. I am running Mac OS 10.12.6 (I am not able to update past this version because of the age of my computer

3. My computer is a 2011iMac 21.5 inch; 2.5GHz intel core i5; 32GB RAM; 1333 MHz DDR3

Apple support => https://support.apple.com/kb/SP765 shows macOS 10.13 High Sierra hardware requirement for iMac is Late 2009 or newer. Noticed Handoff, Instant Hotspot, Universal Clipboard, and Apple Pay on the Web need iMac 2012 or newer.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 18990
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 26 2020 8:08 AM

MWW:

Dr. Chas Rowland:

2. I am running Mac OS 10.12.6 (I am not able to update past this version because of the age of my computer

One possible solution: I have a friend who installs newer versions of macOS on older Macs and they work fine. You can do a google search for "how to install macOS on an unsupported Mac" to get more information on how to do it. It looks like your 2011 iMac has decent specs. However, you don't state what type of hard drive you have, and it is my opinion, and also that of many others, that no one should run Logos on anything other than an SSD drive. I had an older iMac that I was able to install an SSD drive on and it wasn't very expensive. It also extended the useful life of the Mac and we are still using it at our church.

Living & learning one possible solution is only option for Logos/Verbum 9. FYI: my todo list now plans to try Dosdude modification of macOS Mojave for installation on a mid 2011 Mac Mini with SSD storage and macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 (final macOS by Apple for 2011 Mac Mini)

Logos 9.1 has "No" overlay on application bundle icon in downloaded disk image: (from https://www.logos.com/install)

Dragging Logos 9.1 Application Bundle to a folder keeps "No" overlay on macOS High Sierra 10.13.6:

Opening Logos 9.1 application (in Finder) has pop-up message with macOS upgrade needed, which is consistent with FL announcement from 12 Jul 2019 => ANNOUNCEMENT: End of support for Windows 7, Windows 8.1 & MacOS 10.11–10.13 that promised end of support 

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Summary

On February 4, 2020, the operating systems below will enter Maintenance Support status

  • Windows 7
  • Windows 8.1
  • 32-bit versions of Windows 10
  • MacOS 10.11 "El Capitan"
  • MacOS 10.12 "Sierra"
  • MacOS 10.13 "High Sierra"

By the end of 2020, these operating systems will no longer be supported for Logos Bible Software. 

FYI: Opening Verbum 8.17 SR-2 on macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 for the first time shows EULA (with installation being usable):

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 18990
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 4 2021 10:16 AM

Dr. Chas Rowland:

2. I am running Mac OS 10.12.6 (I am not able to update past this version because of the age of my computer

3. My computer is a 2011iMac 21.5 inch; 2.5GHz intel core i5; 32GB RAM; 1333 MHz DDR3

Thankful for patcher => https://dosdude1.com/mojave that allows macOS 10.14 Mojave to be installed/used on 2011 Mac mini (needs network connection after "macOS Post Install" as initial login has some more patches to download & install followed by restart).

Thankful for Logos Wiki Quick Installation onto Multiple Macs so duplicated Logos 9.2 Beta 2 (147 GB) from macOS 11 Big Sur (27" iMac) to macOS 10.14.6 Mojave (2011 Mac mini) using same macOS user account so fully qualified paths inside database files were OK.

Keep Smiling Smile

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