A topic study: *differences between* Calvinism and Arminianism

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This post has 21 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 569
Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Feb 10 2021 3:54 AM

Hi all! How would you recommend I  structure a search to learn more about the differences are between the two, without having to worry about a (no doubt long and drawn out if I wanted it to be) study of Calvinism or Arminianism individually. See what I mean?

Thoughts? Thanks!

Posts 1562
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 4:33 AM

I just ran across a website yesterday that might have what you're looking for as a starting point.  I've included a link below.  I have not had a chance to read through it yet so I don't know how accurate and fair/even handed the presentation is, but I thought it looked like it had potential so I bookmarked it for myself for later review.

Society of Evangelical Arminians | An Outline of the FACTS of Arminianism vs. The TULIP of Calvinism 

Posts 569
Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 4:39 AM

Well thanks Rick, I'll certainly go take a look at that.

Posts 2521
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 5:39 AM

I know that this isn't an exact answer to your question, but here is a set of books Logos has:

https://www.logos.com/product/26686/for-calvinism-and-against-calvinism

Posts 1562
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 5:41 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:

Well thanks Rick, I'll certainly go take a look at that.

You're welcome!

I just realized though that while I tried to provide a link to something I thought might help address your area of interest, my response didn't address your request about setting up a search.  Unfortunately, when it comes to doing searches in Logos I still struggle myself with anything beyond the very basics, so can't be of any help in that area. Sad 

Posts 151
Bob | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 6:37 AM

I tried these basic searches:

calvinism NEAR arminianism (182 resources hit.)

calvinism NEAR arminianism NEAR versus  (11 resources hit)

calvinism NEAR arminianism NEAR vs  (6 resources hit)

Bob

Posts 19401
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 8:14 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:
How would you recommend I  structure a search to learn more about the differences are between the two, without having to worry about a (no doubt long and drawn out if I wanted it to be) study of Calvinism or Arminianism individually. See what I mean?

An Arminianism acronym describing Calvinism is TULIP:

  • Total depravity
  • Unconditional election
  • Limited atonement
  • Irresistible grace
  • Perseverance of the saints

An article search suggestion is: ([field heading,largetext] TULIP,Arminianism) WITHIN 33 WORDS (depravity,election,atonement,grace,saints,security,"free will")

One thought is Zondervan Counterpoints => https://www.logos.com/search?query=counterpoints&sortBy=Bestselling&limit=60&page=2&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=all that includes:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 108
Greg Dement | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 8:16 AM

Carmen, this is an area of great interest to me as well. Still praying to see where I land. The debater in me can argue both positions. Studying Molinism and Provisionism as well, they often get lumped in with Arminianism but there are distinctions.

Posts 205
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 9:43 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Perspectives on the Extent of the Atonement: 3 Views

Only available in a collection, I see.

Posts 1683
Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 10:06 AM

Greg Dement:

Carmen, this is an area of great interest to me as well. Still praying to see where I land. The debater in me can argue both positions. Studying Molinism and Provisionism as well, they often get lumped in with Arminianism but there are distinctions.

Here's an interesting book you might like.

https://www.logos.com/product/190266/no-condemnation-a-theology-of-assurance-of-salvation

The position is neither fully "developed" Calvinism or Arminianism. The author draws a distinction between what Calvin taught and that which his later followers taught. 

Posts 108
Greg Dement | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 10:29 AM

Thank you Paul, I think I will get this.

Posts 151
Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 11:33 AM

I'm writing from a Lutheran perspective. Lutherans traditionally, or at least in many peoples’ view, are in the middle ground between Calvinism or Arminianism.

We Lutherans accept from the calvinist abbreviation TULIP the T-part, and the U-part (as long it doesn’t denote double predestination), but not the L-part, nor the I-part nor the P-part – and being aware this forum is not to be a place for theological debates, I recommend the following search terms:

“total-depravity”, “bondage-to-sin”, “bondage-of-the-will”, “cur-alii-alii-non”, “monergism”, “synergism”, “foreknowledge”, “single-predestination”, “double-predestination”, “predestination-unto”, “election”, “elect”, “unconditional”, “universal-atonement”, “once-saved”

Regarding the subject I recommend the following readings (if you’re interested in Lutheran view on the TULIP):

Martin Luther’s The Bondage of the Will or this version / translation, if You don't have the Luther's Works.

The Book of Concord’s chapters on Free will or human powers, and Eternal foreknowledge and divine election.

I might also recommend Francis Pieper's Christian Dogmatics, which I only have as a paper version and in my native language:

Christian Dogmatics | Logos Bible Software

Pieper has a lot on these topics.

Hope this helps!

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

Posts 108
Greg Dement | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 12:19 PM

Thank you Olli, although I am not Lutheran I do have nice sized general base library package and have at least Bronze in each denomination including Lutheran. I say this in case there is anything in a large general package or the bronze Lutheran package you would recommend on this topic from your perspective? While Pieper’s work looks interesting don’t want to spend over $100 on it at this time. I do have The Bondage of the Will.
One of my Bible study groups is pretty eclectic (Reformed Presbyterian, Non-Reformed Charismatic, Non-Reformed Southern Baptist and the myself a conservative non-denominational) My best friend is a Lutheran and I recently read Metaxas’ book on Martin Luther. Whether I choose to embrace that perspective or not, I do want to be more informed on that perspective. I love to learn!

Posts 151
Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2021 1:44 PM

Greg Dement:

in case there is anything in a large general package or the bronze Lutheran package you would recommend on this topic from your perspective?

Hi, Greg!

The Logos 9 Lutheran Bronze Package has quickly skimming the following:

Luther’s Table Talks on free will .

The Book of Concord | Logos Bible Software, which has the Augsburg Confession (the chief Lutheran Confession). It has this chapter on free will, and the Apology for the Augsburg Confession has this concerning free will

I linked in my earlier post to Theodore G. Tappert’s version (not the Robert Kolb / Timothy Wenger version). L9 Lutheran Bronze has both. Here are the the links in the Kolb/Wenger version to the Formula of Concord chapters on Free will or human powers, and God’s Eternal Foreknowledge and divine election.

More popular books in the Bronze Package:

Lutheran Questions, Lutheran Answers: Exploring Christian Faith | Logos Bible Software

which has a chapter on the Lutheran view on the will of man and on predestination

And then some more scholarly: Julius Köstlin has to say on Luther’s views on free will and predestinationHere’s Steven D. Paulson’s views on the Lutheran view on predestination in his Lutheran Theology. Here’s Eric W. Gritsch’s and Robert W. Jenson’s views on the Lutheran teaching on predestination in their Lutheranism: The Theological Movement (also in L9 Lutheran Bronze). And then there’s Hans J. Iwand’s The Righteousness of Faith According to Luther and it’s chapter on predestination.

Blessings!

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

Posts 151
Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 5:47 AM

Greg Dement:

in case there is anything in a large general package or the bronze Lutheran package you would recommend on this topic from your perspective?

Some more resources, references and allusions in the Logos 9 Lutheran Bronze Package:

TOTAL DEPRAVITY?

The Lutheran Formula of Concord sees the powers of the will of “natural, unconverted man” as limited to external things, going to church, listening and reading externally the word of God etc. After that all the converting work in salvation is seen to be done solely by the Holy Spirit.

UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION?

The Lutheran Formula of Concord sees predestination as single predestination, pertaining only to the saved; not double predestination, pertaining both to the saved and the damned/lost. Hence it is a mystery or a paradox that no one can solve in this life. The solution can be found in the revealed Christ, not in the hidden will of God. Being saved comes sola gratia Dei (solely from the grace of God) but being lost is sola culpa hominis (solely the fault of man). God's revealed will (that all should be saved) is not in contradiction to his hidden will.

How about the LIP-part in the TULIP (Calvinistic acronym for the doctrine of salvation)? Here are some quotes from the Lutheran Confessional Writings that can be found in Logos 9 Lutheran Bronze Package that tackle the doctrines of L-, I-, and P-parts of the Calvinist Acronym.

LIMITED VS. UNIVERSAL ATONEMENT:

Lutheran Formula of Concord holds to the fact that God’s saving grace is a universal grace, not a particular grace. This universal grace is proclaimed through the gospel. The gospel promise and the atonement pertains to all men.

The Formula of Concord rejects particularism and limited views on the offer of salvation and atonement.

IRRESISTIBLE VS. RESISTIBLE GRACE:

According to the Formula of Concord man can and does resist the grace of God. Hence the paradox remains unsolved, because salvation is entirely up to God, damnation entirely up to the resistance of man.

PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS?

The Augsburg Confession tackles on the doctrine “once saved, always saved”, while dealing with repentance (especially paragraph 7). The Smalkald Confession (composed by Luther himself) tackles on the same doctrine.

The Formula of Concord rejects both the synergistic view that on the one hand man contributes positively to his/her own salvation and on the other hand bad deeds have nothing to do with losing salvationAgain, the mystery or paradox is upheld.

And finally a caveat: The purpose of this post is to be descriptive of historical Lutheran doctrine and to guide the reader to the sources, not to be prescriptive nor to start theological arguments (since that is not allowed here).

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

Posts 108
Greg Dement | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 6:14 AM

Thank you for taking the time to put this together. It is clear you are being descriptive with this info.

Posts 569
Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 12 2021 4:08 AM

Hey all, thanks for ALL the responses... one reason I love the Logos fora! My plan is to simply give myself an overview of what Calvinism is and what Arminianism is and the differences between them so that I can ponder these things and perhaps even discuss them somewhat intelligently when asked... I think this will be MOST helpful, so thanks again!

Posts 1852
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 12 2021 6:20 AM

Pardon me for kind of tooting my own horn, so to speak, but if you are interested in Lutheran perspectives on this, look at some of the Personal Books I shared here years ago. Especially look at Franz Pieper and the response by Keyser, but Walther, Loy, and The Error of Modern Missouri are good for background too.

As for official Logos resources, in addition to the fine references above (thanks for the good list, Olli-Pekka) you may want to check out a few century old catechisms that are relatively non-polemic fighters in the Lutheran struggle to speak of this, namely, https://ref.ly/logosres/xplntnlthrsbdtn?ref=Page.p+73 and https://ref.ly/logosres/shrtxpsmlctchsmeng?ref=Page.p+94

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

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Posts 151
Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 12 2021 6:51 AM

Ken McGuire:

Especially look at Franz Pieper and the response by Keyser, but Walther, Loy, and The Error of Modern Missouri are good for background too.

Thanks for these! Always love "free" (for myself, at least; you've put an enormous mount of time and effort into converting these into) PB:s! Smile

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

Posts 954
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 11 2021 9:29 PM

Hi Carmen:

Very interesting article I came across, may help you identify certain key issues that then you may search for more info in L9:

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=cgm_theo

Not sure how the Author got all the info together, and if is validated, but very detailed account of currents, backgrounds, implications etc. of very different traditions.

Hope it helps.

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