Searching for questions of Christ?

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Posts 128
Derek | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 15 2010 10:30 PM

Any way to search the words of Christ for sentences containing questionmarks?

;)

thanks

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 10:46 PM

Derek:

Any way to search the words of Christ for sentences containing questionmarks?

;)

thanks

Hmm, good question. You can't search for punctuation in Logos. So you might be able to get a good approximation by searching for all the question words: who, what, where, when, why, how, which. But that won't catch questions that are formed by reversing subject/verb: "Simon son of John, do you love me?"

I don't know Greek, but maybe there is some clue in Greek that points to a question which you could search for which someone else could help you with.

Barring that, it looks like a good project to read through all the red letter text looking for questions and marking them up with a particular highlighting style that you create for the purpose: Questions of Jesus. Someday, when/if we're able to export our highlighting to share with others, you'd be very popular!

You could use one of these books as a guide to help you should you decide to take this project on:

The Questions of Jesus, by John Dear ("offers a 2-3 page reflection [each] on 125 of Jesus' questions")

The Questions of Jesus: Meditations on the Red Letter Questions by Don Harris ("There are 151 questions, formulated in the mind of the Son of God, recorded in the Scriptures. This book explores them all.")

These are not available in Logos, unfortunately.

 

 

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 10:58 PM

Derek:

Any way to search the words of Christ for sentences containing questionmarks?

;)

thanks

Derek,

I assume you know that the "words of Christ" is one of the search fields available, however I do not think the program will search punctuation. I thought initially that you might be able to search the common question words (who, what, where, when, why, how) but that does not work very well as it returns a lot of passage that are not questions (e.g. "Blessed are those who mourn, etc.)

If have have a resource in you library called "All the Questions of the Bible, you could do a passage list for the 4 Gospel's, Acts, and Revelation. This would at least narrow the field of questions and then delete those that are not questions Christ posed.

If someone else has another idea, I would be interested in hearing it.

EDIT: Rosie was posting at the same time I was, sorry for any duplication in our answers.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:21 AM

Derek:
for sentences containing questionmarks?

You can use the following to find questions:

I don't have time to  see if you can add the words limit here or if one has to do two search and merge the results (overlaping)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 18888
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:39 AM

MJ. Smith:

Derek:
for sentences containing questionmarks?

You can use the following to find questions:

I don't have time to  see if you can add the words limit here or if one has to do two search and merge the results (overlaping)

It looks like you can add the Word of Christ limit here:

But when I did that I got zero results.

However you could create a passage list from those results (choose "Save as Passage List" from the panel menu). Then I think you can create another passage list with just the Words of Christ by doing a Bible Search for * (the wildcard character) with the Words of Christ checkbox set under Search Fields (drop down that menu by clicking on "All Text"). (I'm in the midst of trying it now, but wildcard searches take a very long time, so it isn't finished yet.) Once you have the two Passage Lists, you can merge them via Intersection (open either PL, select Merge, select the other PL from the list, and choose Intersection from the right side of the menu).

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:57 AM

Rosie Perera:
But when I did that I got zero results.

You may have found a bug.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 1:00 AM

I suspect that's because only the surface text is tagged with WoC, not the underlying Greek text.

Posts 18888
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 1:25 AM

Mark Barnes:

I suspect that's because only the surface text is tagged with WoC, not the underlying Greek text.

If that's the case, then why do they let us select WoC in a Morph search?

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 1:44 AM

Try as follows.

If you set "Words of Christ" you get ZERO, as above, so just search all Matt-John.

Then save as a Passage List.

Then, remove any that you don't want.

Then, add any missing ... which is of course, your original question ... Smile

HINT: If you make multiple different passage lists, using different kinds of search, you can then add, merge, subtract them etc to make new ones. Think if them as "set" operations, and build all kinds of goodies as required. Its a powerful feature, that I've seen little talk of here, but its worth learning.

P.S. My "Gospels" is just a named search range, so I don't have to get the whole NT or Bible in results. Note that there are Words of Christ in Acts, Rev and a few other NT locations. The exact Words-of-Christ vary by translation, and are not indicated in the Greek manuscripts, so use caution on what is, or is not, actually included.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 2:05 AM

OK, my wildcard search for Words of Christ just finished. I did an Intersection Merge of the Passage List generated from that with the PL generated from Martha's suggested Morph search for the Greek Interrogative Particle, and came up with only 55 verses. It's missing, for example, all of Jesus' questions to Peter in John 21:15-17 "Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?" Etc.

I don't know Greek at all, but evidently there are questions that do not use that interrogative particle. I couldn't find anything in the morphology of the Greek text of those verses that would indicate a question, so you'd have to figure it out from context.

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 2:40 AM

Rosie,

For ESV Gospels, counts as follows:

@BI => 96 hits

@RI => 400

@TI => 111

@V??O => 12

All up, using all four for entire NT, gets 851 verses. Merge/intersect that with your PL for Words-of-Christ, and then explore the results.

I expect some false hits, and some misses, but I have not tried in any detail.

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 5:06 AM

Remember, you can use a passage list to restrict a search range too.

Posts 1357
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 16 2010 4:48 PM

This title is in all base packages except Original Languages

All the Questions in the Bible

Author: Hancock, Jimmie L.
Publisher: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
Publication Date: 1999, c1998.
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 17 2010 7:40 AM

Rosie Perera:
If that's the case, then why do they let us select WoC in a Morph search?

WOC Field in a Bible search also gives zero results because of the silly limitation to surface text.  So I used a special reference range of all WOC in Gospels that I had from L3 - see http://community.logos.com/forums/p/9732/77362.aspx#77362. It returned 55 verses very quickly but omitted the ones you mentioned in Jn.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 17 2010 11:48 AM

This seems like a pretty simple question for which there is no simple answer in Logos right now. The data is available, but our search limitations prevent us from being able to find it. What this points up is the need for a fully functional search capability within Logos. We need to be able to specify the search parameters, the data type, and the resources we want to search without the current limitations imposed by the current Basic, 'Bible', Morph', and 'Syntax' impositions. I know Logos doesn't want to create a beast they have to support, but learning to write a search 'from scratch' couldn't be harder than figuring our syntactical searches, IMO.

(For example, The Lexham Causal Outlines of the Greek NT contains markers for questions which are searchable in Basic search as surface text. Fine. But there is no way to then search those results for the WOC marker in an English Bible, or for any other data we might want to search. A full search capability would let us search the first for intersections with the latter. I won't hold my breathe for this, but it would unlock all the data we have in Logos.)

Another possibility for just this search would be for Logos to 'hard code' a list of the WOC Bible references (sort of like the passage list Dave supplied) which could then serve as a Bible reference option in all types of searches. This would be easy and a useful thing to do.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 17 2010 8:11 PM

Mark A. Smith:
Another possibility for just this search would be for Logos to 'hard code' a list of the WOC Bible references (sort of like the passage list Dave supplied) which could then serve as a Bible reference option in all types of searches. This would be easy and a useful thing to do.

Actually, NO, NOT an easy thing to do ...

Words-of-Christ are not an original part of the manuscripts, so are up to the translation teams to decide. A simple check between ESV and NIV will show different verses includes or excluded.

E.G. John 3:16 in NIV "For God so loved the world ..." is shown in red, however, see the footnote after verse 21.

Possible solution: Make a WOC Passage List that includes the Superset of all main(trusted/prefered/fav.) versions as the base for any such searches. Then, on finding any "answers", consider the verses on their merit, using all tools to hand.

(Be nice if we had a working wildcard search that does not take an hour every time.)

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 17 2010 8:14 PM

JimT:
(Be nice if we had a working wildcard search that does not take an hour every time.)

+1 Yes

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 17 2010 8:15 PM

Mark A. Smith:
What this points up is the need for a fully functional search capability within Logos.

YES!!!

Please let us have access to the aw search engine. I don't care if the syntax is tricky or complex, but at least let those that are motived enough have at it!

(Someone would soon enough write up all kinds of cut-N-paste examples all over a wiki page or two, so those wanting or needing it, would work out the gory stuff. And of course, leave the nice simple front ends for users that just want to do more simple searching.)

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 17 2010 8:20 PM

JimT:
Actually, NO, NOT an easy thing to do ...

Not to argue, but it isn't hard to do at all. Your point is which version to base it on, not the difficulty of getting it done. Logos can create more than one set if they choose. Call them NASWOC, ESVWOC, or whatever. That would be a long way ahead of what we have now.

I think it may be faster to create the WOC passage list in 3.0. I gave up in 4.0 and tried it there. It took time, maybe 10 minutes to do the search and create the verse list. BTW: mine's based on the NAS.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 17 2010 8:35 PM

Mark A. Smith:
Not to argue, but it isn't hard to do at all. Your point is which version to base it on, not the difficulty of getting it done.

Correct!

Yes, not so hard in technical terms. Hard in terms of "which verses are in or out?". I should have made that clearer.

In Logos4, search for "*" with only Words-of-Christ enabled. Takes a VERY LONG time. Export/Save as a passage list. e.g. NIV as "WOC_NIV", ESV as "WOC_ESV", NASB95 as "WOC_NAS" etc, according to taste.

Then, using the Merge or Add Passage List features of 4.1 (Beta), slice and dice as required.

Actually, someone could do this for all their bibles that have WOC markup, make the master list, and paste it back here as a simple text file of the hits. Then, anyone else could do a simple import to their own PL, and not need the search portion.

If no one beats me to it, I might do it later today, if nothing else gets my attention, or seems more important at the time ...

Is such a list fair-useage, or a Copyright issue?

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