Advanced Collections and Prioritization Limits for Custom PG

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Ron | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010 8:11 AM

I've seen a thread about something similar to this before, but it wasn't exactly the same as what I'm trying to do.  This may not even be possible, but...

I wanted to create a custom PG that had several different commentary sections: Best Exegetical, Best Expositional, Best Devotional, as well as a few others that aren't relevant to this question.  I then wanted to design it so that it would work correctly on a "per book" type basis.  For example, WBC and NICOT might come up for Best Exegetical when doing a PG on Genesis and Sailhamer for Best Expositional on Genesis, etc.  When doing a PG on a Matthew Passage, it would pull Carson among others, etc.

I started by creating collections, one for each of the commentary sections I wanted in the PG.  It is easy to handle when a commentary that I want to add only deals with the single book of the Bible that I want to add it for.  The problem of course arises when I start dealing with commentary volumes that deal with more than one book of the Bible.  For example, I want the EBC to show up for Matthew (Carson), but not for Mark or Luke.  Or worse, I want the EBC to show up in the Expositional section for Genesis, but in the Exegetical section for Exodus.  Or worse still, I want the BKC (which of course is a single-volume that covers the whole Bible) to show up in the Expositional section for Exodus.  Advanced Prioritization limits will help by putting the ones that I really care about at the top of the list for each book, but I'm guessing there is no way to get a volume that covers multiple books to show up only for certain books?

I hope that all makes sense.  Let me know if you need clarification.

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steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 8:42 AM

i can't help you with most of your requests...but

Ron Keyston Jr:
but I'm guessing there is no way to get a volume that covers multiple books to show up only for certain books?

Yes you can get that to work in Advance Prioritization see wiki Example 1: customizing a priority of a commentary for specific books (just specify the books separate by commas [maybe semicolons, i forget]) (it will allow sequential books e.g. Exodus-Deut)

 

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 8:58 AM

For commentaries on single books, this might be possible to a limited extent, but the kind of control you're asking for (prioritization of specific resources only as applied to specific reference ranges does not appear to be possible at this time.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 9:00 AM

Ron,

I haven't tried it but I think you could use advanced prioritization in the multi-Bible-book commentaries to specify which single book you wanted that commentary to function for. If you have more than one Bible book you want to link to in that commentary you will have prioritize that commentary multiple times and set the prioritization limits separately for each one. Give it a try if you haven't.

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Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 9:18 AM

Mark A. Smith:

Ron,

I haven't tried it but I think you could use advanced prioritization in the multi-Bible-book commentaries to specify which single book you wanted that commentary to function for. If you have more than one Bible book you want to link to in that commentary you will have prioritize that commentary multiple times and set the prioritization limits separately for each one. Give it a try if you haven't.

I had completely forgotten about "advanced prioritization limits"

Just right click the title of a commentary which is prioritized and click "set prioritization...."

 

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Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 10:47 AM

Thanks for the replies and suggestions everyone.  I have played with the advanced prioritization limits and it helps, but doesn't do exactly what I want (though it may be as close as I can get for now.)  It moves the resource that I care about to the top of the list, but doesn't exclude the ones that I don't want to show up for a book.  In other words, if I go through and set priority limits for each and every book, then run my custom PG, each commentary collection will still have the commentaries that I don't want, but they will be at the bottom of the list.  This is the method I had come up with already, I was just hoping there was a better one.  It will do for now.

What we really need in order to make this work correctly is prioritization limits within collections.  That way I could (for example) include EBC volume 2 in my Exegetical collection only inasmuch as it deals with Exodus and exclude it when the collection is searching for information in Leviticus and Numbers.  Maybe I'll suggest that in the beta and/or suggestions forum.

Thanks again,

Ron

Posts 61
Leigh Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 12:57 PM

Another way to approach the problem would be to create note files for each type of commentary with links to the commentaries you want under each book of the Bible.  Might take a bit to set up but it might then give you what you're looking for.

Posts 2279
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 1:15 PM

Ron Keyston Jr:

I have played with the advanced prioritization limits and it helps, but doesn't do exactly what I want (though it may be as close as I can get for now.)  It moves the resource that I care about to the top of the list, but doesn't exclude the ones that I don't want to show up for a book.

I have tried playing around with advanced prioritizations specifically in relation to EBC in the way that Ron describes (prioritising Carson for Matthew and de-prioritising for passage guides outside this specific range). I have, however, had variable results.

I have included the screen shots of the set up below. You will note that the EBC is prioritised above NICOT/NICNT and I have specified Matthew as the range. However, the following screen indicates that NICNT is still prioritised above EBC even though the range is within Matthew.

I am unsure whether this is a bug, whether I have actioned the advanced prioritization function incorrectly or whether I am attempting the impossible.

I thought that I had it working, EBC was prioritised aboved NICNT in Matthew, but then found that it trumped BEC in Luke, which was not my intention at all.

All of this is a convoluted way of expressing that I am in agreement with Ron's suggestion that customisable prioritisation of this kind would be very welcome.

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 2:19 PM

Andy Evans:
I have included the screen shots of the set up below. You will note that the EBC is prioritised above NICOT/NICNT and I have specified Matthew as the range. However, the following screen indicates that NICNT is still prioritised above EBC even though the range is within Matthew.

Yes, you are right. I have a few individual commentaries prioritized with the Advanced Priority for the given Bible book (EBC Carson for Matthew etc) but it shows only after all my prioritized series.

Bohuslav

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 4:52 PM

Andy Evans:

I am unsure whether this is a bug, whether I have actioned the advanced prioritization function incorrectly or whether I am attempting the impossible.

I thought that I had it working, EBC was prioritised aboved NICNT in Matthew, but then found that it trumped BEC in Luke, which was not my intention at all.

I've been trying to get the Prioritization changed without success. The comment I received was "If resources that you don’t prefer are showing up for specific types of references, you will need to prioritize resources that you do prefer for that reference type.". So insert an unrestricted entry for EBC just above BEC. This should work if Matthew is the only reference you want to trump BEC with!

Dave
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Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2010 11:14 PM

Dave Hooton:

I've been trying to get the Prioritization changed without success. The comment I received was "If resources that you don’t prefer are showing up for specific types of references, you will need to prioritize resources that you do prefer for that reference type.". So insert an unrestricted entry for EBC just above BEC. This should work if Matthew is the only reference you want to trump BEC with!

Hi Dave,

Apologies, I have just realised that I have not been absolutely clear.

I have set my prioritisations as follows:

BEC on Luke

EBC on Matthew, Mark and Luke (advanced priorities specifying the range as Bible/Matthew)

NICOT/NICNT series

BEC series

EBC series

(This list is illustrative rather than exhaustive.)

The results are not as I think they should be.

Basically, I am not confident that the 'range' option is doing anything at my end. The screen shots above seem to suggest that it is not working. EBC should be prioritised in MPG when working from Matthew and yet appears way down the list. I have played around with the order in the prioritisations list, but to no avail. (I mentioned Luke in connection with a previous failure to get it working, I thought I had nailed it but then ran a passage guide on Luke and realised that it had just bumped the entire EBC volume up the list and trumped BEC on Luke even though BEC Luke was prioritised above both this EBC volume and series.)

I was wondering if you had managed to limit the range of such a commentary to a book of the bible as I am attempting? I ask because it seems (if I understand correctly) that Bohuslav has similarly been unable to acheive this and I wonder if it is a bug and whether the 'range' selector actually does anything (with regards to commentaries - I have it working with other resources, e.g. Lexicons, where the range is preselectable, NT, OT or whatever)?

I have also noticed that the advanced prioritisation menu has a tendency to (occasionally and, it seems, randomly) reset and wipe itself.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2010 1:31 AM

Andy Evans:
I was wondering if you had managed to limit the range of such a commentary to a book of the bible as I am attempting?

I don't Prioritize that way. But I did Prioritize one commentary set on a bible book and noticed that it worked on the Context menu for a Bible reference!

This was an experiment in PG for 3 passages as shown:-

                     PG reference -->  Matt   Mark   Gen

Pulpit Series - restr. to Mark        -         -          -

Holman NT: Matt                        1         -          -

NAC series                                2                 1

Pulpit series                               3                 2

[the number is the position of the resource in the Commentaries section]

Definitely not working as expected, but the results were fine if I prioritized the Pulpit Commentary: St Mark (Vol2) in place of the restricted series.

EDIT: I would have to prioritize St Mark (Vol 1)  for coverage of the book of Mark in the Pulpit Commentary (the other Gospels are also over two volumes).

Dave
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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2010 4:12 AM

Andy Evans:
I was wondering if you had managed to limit the range of such a commentary to a book of the bible as I am attempting? I ask because it seems (if I understand correctly) that Bohuslav has similarly been unable to acheive this and I wonder if it is a bug and whether the 'range' selector actually does anything (with regards to commentaries - I have it working with other resources, e.g. Lexicons, where the range is preselectable, NT, OT or whatever)?

Yes Andy. My experience is the same as yours. As I said it looks to me that prioritization of series is understood to be above the single commentary (limited to one Bible book) prioritization. That's how it appears to me. It shouldn't be so IMHO.

Bohuslav

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2010 6:52 AM

Don't forget, to help fine tune this you can prioritize just one volume in a series as well. From the library, simply right click and prioritize the resource.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:21 AM

Ron Keyston Jr:
I started by creating collections, one for each of the commentary sections I wanted in the PG.  It is easy to handle when a commentary that I want to add only deals with the single book of the Bible that I want to add it for. 

I cover this aspect of PG vs. Collection in http://community.logos.com/forums/t/20101.aspx

Dave
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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2010 8:35 AM

Thomas Black:
Don't forget, to help fine tune this you can prioritize just one volume in a series as well. From the library, simply right click and prioritize the resource.

Yes, I know Tom. Here is how I have the commentaries prioritized:

Bohuslav

Posts 2279
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2010 11:30 AM

Thomas Black:

Don't forget, to help fine tune this you can prioritize just one volume in a series as well. From the library, simply right click and prioritize the resource.

Hi Thomas,

This is the approach I have taken. I have prioritised the EBC series as fourth in my priorities list, but have then singled out vol. 8 and given this the highest priority (above NICNT and the EBC commentary series). The difficulty, however, is that vol. 8 covers the synoptics and I only want to prioritise Matthew (I prefer BEC on Luke, for example). I have tried, therefore, restricting the range of volume 8 of the EBC to Matthew's gospel.

I would expect that when I run a passage guide on Matthew, EBC comes up as the highest priority, but when I run a passage guide on Luke, I would expect BEC to come up as the highest priority and the EBC to come up fifth in the list.

This does not seem to happen, however, which makes me suspect that the advanced prioritisation is not working correctly (at least with regards to this particular senario).

Your suggestion is helpful as a workaround (I have prioritised BEC, Luke, above EBC vol. 8) and this seems to provide the desired results. However, it still seems that there is a problem with the advanced prioritisation and I envisage difficulties when trying to tweak the prioritisations for commentaries on, say, the minor prophets where it is common for the one commentary to cover multiple books. What if, for example, commentaries A and B cover Obadiah through to Habakkuk and I want to prioritise commentary A for Jonah and Nahum and commentary B for the remaining three books? It seems that I should be able to use the advanced prioritisation to acheive this. It is this functionality which seems to be missing (unless I have missed something).

If I am correct (and it doesn't happen often... Stick out tongue), in addition to tweaking/fixing the functionality, I would also suggest that the 'range selector' has presets similar to those used with the bible search tool (e.g. NT, OT, Matt-Luke, John, Pauline, etc.).Thinking about it, it might work if the range selector uses the same presets and customisable ranges stored in the bible search tool.

This would, in my view, provide a consistent UI and give the user confidence that we are using advanced prioritisation correctly.

I hope that makes sense... Tongue Tied

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:04 PM

Andy Evans:

I would expect that when I run a passage guide on Matthew, EBC comes up as the highest priority, but when I run a passage guide on Luke, I would expect BEC to come up as the highest priority and the EBC to come up fifth in the list.

This does not seem to happen, however, which makes me suspect that the advanced prioritisation is not working correctly (at least with regards to this particular senario).

I have created a wiki report for Advanced_Prioritization_does_not_affect_Commentary_order_in_Passage_guide

Andy Evans:
Your suggestion is helpful as a workaround (I have prioritised BEC, Luke, above EBC vol. 8) and this seems to provide the desired results.

Prioritising individual volumes is a workaround, but as I stated above why should I have to prioritise two volumes to cover the book of Mark!?

Dave
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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2010 8:47 PM

 

Andy Evans:
I hope that makes sense... Tongue Tied

It made perfect sense Andy.  Hopefully Dave's bug report will bring either a fix or clarity.

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Posts 4077
Melissa Snyder | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 22 2010 11:31 AM

I've reported this as a possible bug to get more clarification.

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