Suggestion: Better Organisation of Prioritisation

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 6 2010 11:52 PM

Mark Barnes:
even better would be an option to filter the prioritisation list so I could see just bibles, or just dictionaries, etc.

Bradley/Bob,  we are not asking for L3 data type prioritization because the L4 wrapper is different.Smile

Dave
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Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 12:20 AM

Andy Evans:

Secondly, and related to this, I wondered if it might be useful to be able to create collapsable folders within the prioritisation list (e.g. NT commentaries, OT commentaries, journals, bible dictionaries, etc.).

The creation of folders would, of course, be customisable and optional and I cannot see that it would impact on the desired effect of prioritisation as I do not see any benefit to prioritising a commentary over, say, a bible dictionary (please correct me if I am wrong on this).

I was struggling with this the other day and completely agree. This is the only way we are going to be able to efficiently prioritise large libraries.  I really hope the designers are reading this thread! Smile

 

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DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 12:40 AM

I was savage: I deleted evertthing from the list and only added back my key bibles and a couple of other resources, it has had no impact AFAIK on searching, PG/EG etc

mine is definitely managable..Big Smile

 I like your idea of categories..

 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 1:01 AM

DominicM:

I was savage: I deleted evertthing from the list and only added back my key bibles and a couple of other resources, it has had no impact AFAIK on searching, PG/EG etc

mine is definitely managable

Mine is definately not manageable. If you have a large and varied library you have to prioritise heavily to get the most out of Logos:

  • Red: Bibles followed by Apocryphas.
  • Light pink: Apostolic Fathers
  • Purple: Bible Dictionaries
  • Green: Commentaries
  • Light brown: Lexicons
  • Grey: Systematic theologies
  • Plum: First-century Judaistic writings
  • Yellow: Devotionals
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Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 1:20 AM

Mark Barnes:

Your mock up, Mark, illustrates how I envisage the priorisation screen should look only with expandable columns (though I appreciate this was not your intention). I take Dave's point that additional columns reduce the amount of readable text, but there is a value in being able to see a whole bunch of resources on the screen at once.

I prefer Mark's idea of a filter to my original suggestion of collapsable folders, but fear that inconsistencies in the metadata might make this more frustrating than it need be.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 1:59 AM

Mark Barnes:

DominicM:

I was savage: I deleted evertthing from the list and only added back my key bibles and a couple of other resources, it has had no impact AFAIK on searching, PG/EG etc

mine is definitely managable

Mine is definately not manageable. If you have a large and varied library you have to prioritise heavily to get the most out of Logos:

  • Red: Bibles followed by Apocryphas.
  • Light pink: Apostolic Fathers
  • Purple: Bible Dictionaries
  • Green: Commentaries
  • Light brown: Lexicons
  • Grey: Systematic theologies
  • Plum: First-century Judaistic writings
  • Yellow: Devotionals

Wow!

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 4:54 AM

Mark Barnes:

I agree 100% that this needs to be improved. I think this is one of the areas where Logos designed a new feature without fully realising how useful and important it would be. I would personally like to see prioritisation moved to a tab of its own (like collections), rather than as a column within Library. This would mean we could actually see the prioritisation column rather than have it so narrow!

I would also like to be able to add separators between various types of resources, but even better would be an option to filter the prioritisation list so I could see just bibles, or just dictionaries, etc.

+1 Yes

 

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James W Bennett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 7:21 AM

Dave Hooton:
"Restrict resource to..." this data type - meaning I don't want it used for any other data type.

That may be the most useful option that could be implemented. Other than folders for organization this suggestion might fix the majority of problems with prioritization.

YesYesYes

 

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James W Bennett

http://syriac.tara-lu.com/

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 11:07 AM

Kevin Becker:
I would also like to be able to add separators between various types of resources, but even better would be an option to filter the prioritisation list so I could see just bibles, or just dictionaries, etc.

Yes

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 11:43 AM

ok I thought I got prioritization... but obviously not... surely afer you have priorited your top 5-10 books/bible/commentaries.. the other results and where they appear in the passage gude/search etc.. are irrelevant (aren't they?)

Am I missing something important?

 

I have 3000+ books in my library but cant see why that should equate to a huge list like yours Mark.. is it all about control/customisation and personal preference..?? IMO if so seems a bit extreme...

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 9:35 PM

DominicM:
ok I thought I got prioritization... but obviously not... surely afer you have priorited your top 5-10 books/bible/commentaries.. the other results and where they appear in the passage gude/search etc.. are irrelevant (aren't they?)

People will get good results from prioritising 5 or 6 resources in the major categories (English Bibles, Greek & Hebrew Bibles, Dictionaries, Lexicons, Commentaries). Getting lexicons to work as you wish can be difficult (for Strong's, GK #, Greek, Hebrew, TDNT #, TWOT #) and does involve Advanced Prioritization because many handle multiple data types whilst you want specific resources for Strong's, TDNT #, etc.

I would guess that Mark has many Parallel Resource sets (PRS) and is particular about resource order in the list and in Passage Guide. It's obvious that he wants LXX resources to access an LXX lexicon before other Greek lexicons and for Strong's numbers to be found in traditional Strong's lexicons. Not everybody has the same need and I prioritize about 40 resources across the major categories.

Dave
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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 11:10 PM

I have come up with a clever hack for adding headings to divide my prioritization list up into categories (pink highlighting added in screenshot editor):

It's a new use for all those hidden resources you don't ever intend to use. I unhid a few of them, renamed them each to a section header title (e.g., "Section: Bibles"), retaining the original name in a tag just in case, as follows: "renamed from: {original title}" then prioritized them above the books in the section they were a heading for. I set the advanced prioritization to apply only to that resource, so it won't show up on me in unwanted contexts. (There's still the issue of them showing up in search results, but I can easily overlook search hits in any book titled "Section: ___"; or I could make a collection of all books in my library that do NOT have "Section" in their title and search only in that; fortunately no other books in my library do.)

Let me know if you have any tweaks to improve this. Initially I'd hoped I could make a bunch of essentially empty resources by importing empty sermon files in from L3, and use those as section headers, since they'll never show up in searches. But they all come in as one resource ("Sermons of Rosie Perera") no matter what tricks I tried. I even tried making some sermons by a different author, but it reassigned all of my sermons to that different author. Then I tried tricking Logos by making a duplicate copy of my LogosUserSermons.lbxlls but it outsmarted me and removed the duplicate. Any ideas how I could make this work? If not, I'm pretty happy with my solution. Once PBBs come along, perhaps I'll be able to make some empty PBBs and use those for this purpose.

Even with this hack for section headers, I still want some improvements to the prioritization list (some of these ideas I got from others):

  1. Make it its own tab, complete with print/export function
  2. Implement searching or filtering in the prioritization list (I guess you can't do both, because a Find box at the top will either do one or the other)
  3. Allow drag & drop of multiple resources at once, both to add to the prioritization list and to move things around within it
  4. Give us a way to filter out of our Library all resources that have been prioritized already so we can look for any we might have missed, e.g.,
    rating:>0 AND prioritized:no  (or "... ANDNOT prioritized:yes")
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 12:04 AM

Rosie Perera:
I have come up with a clever hack for adding headings to divide my prioritization list up into categories

Ouch! That's a painful hack. If I was to do anything I'd scatter commentary series around because their name is in bold and it doesn't affect anything.

ESV

NET

NIV

NKJV

Pulpit - 77 vols

HBD

Ungers

Harpers

Eermans

NAC - 39 vols

DBL Greek

....

Dave
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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 1:09 AM

Dave Hooton:

Rosie Perera:
I have come up with a clever hack for adding headings to divide my prioritization list up into categories

Ouch! That's a painful hack. If I was to do anything I'd scatter commentary series around because their name is in bold and it doesn't affect anything.

Hmm, your idea isn't that much better. The commentary series names do not tell you what each section is. Yes, you know, but it would be nice to have them say "Bibles," "Bible Dictionaries," etc.

What this is all telling us is that people are getting desperate and Logos needs to do something about this!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 2:18 AM

Rosie Perera:
What this is all telling us is that people are getting desperate

That was (nearly) the point!

Dave
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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 10:12 AM

Rosie Perera:
What this is all telling us is that people are getting desperate and Logos needs to do something about this!

Yes, that is the most important information. It is up to Logos to invent some working system, whether it will be collapsible sections or filter system, that's up to them to decide. I would be happy with anything what would bring order into the list.

Bohuslav

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 8:07 PM

Interesting thread...

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 10 2010 3:02 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
I would be happy with anything what would bring order into the list.

I agree completely. It is a bit chaotic at present.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 10 2010 7:58 AM

DominicM:

ok I thought I got prioritization... but obviously not... surely afer you have priorited your top 5-10 books/bible/commentaries.. the other results and where they appear in the passage gude/search etc.. are irrelevant (aren't they?)

Am I missing something important?

Sorry for the delay in replying. I'm at a conference, and have only just managed to find WiFi. Let me explain why I prioritise the way I do. I'll go through my prioritisation list I posted earlier, and explain why I bothered including what I did.

  1. Bibles is straightforward. I guess we all do that. Apocrypha is the same principle.
  2. I prioritise all my Bible dictionaries because I have so many of them. I know that in parallel resources, the ones nearest the top are the ones I rate the best, and therefore the ones worth reading first. It means I can choose the top dictionary, then use the right arrow key to get to my next best dictionary. If I didn't prioritise all of them I'd have to:
    1. Remember which I think are best - easy for the well-known dictionaries, but sometimes I forget
    2. Click on PRS, wait for several seconds, perhaps scroll, and click again in order to get to the next resource.
  3. Commentaries are very similar re: parallel resources. But equally, in the passage guide I like to know that the commentaries near the top are the ones I most trust. If I run a passage guide on 1 Cor 1, I get 82 resources returned. It's too much to remember my best commentaries - and I often forget that the one called 1 Corinthians is the NIBC commentary whereas the one called The First Epistle to the Corinthians is the NICNT. (I know I could rename them, but prioritising is easier and has more advantages).
  4. As Dave said, with the lexicons I want LXX lexicons to show up when I click on a word in the LXX, hence the advanced prioritisation. I also want TWO and Strongs to show up when I click on those numbers. In between are just all my lexicons - again they're all prioritised so that in the EG and PRS the best are at the top.
  5. Systematic theologies probably don't need to be prioritised. There was a good reason, but I've forgotten it!
  6. First-century Jewish literature needs to be prioritised as I prefer to get the English translations by default and then use the right-arrow key to switch to the original language. If I don't prioritise you sometimes get English and sometimes the original language - that's annoying.
  7. Devotionals need to be prioritised for the home page both on the PC and iPhone.
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DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 10 2010 8:07 AM

thx Mark, enjoy conference..

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

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